FreeAgent the Friendliest Accounting Software & Journey'ing with Jordan on Growth

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another podcast, um, and...

[00:00:03] Oh fucks, huge one!

[00:00:04] You're absolutely wrong!

[00:00:06] This is my old family's fever!

[00:00:08] I know it's making you really happy to see fingernails again!

[00:00:12] I always enjoy an indie finger, you know?

[00:00:15] Oh I'm really happy! Look, I'm sorry but that is...

[00:00:18] What a recovery! Look at that!

[00:00:20] I know, it's like I said, you're like our resident podcast gecko.

[00:00:24] Yeah, like it's recovered guys! How long did it take?

[00:00:28] It's very good. I'm very, very satisfied that you are believed to be a good artist.

[00:00:32] Eight months! No nails from the roof!

[00:00:36] And now eight months!

[00:00:36] You're ruining the bit when John hands over to you, where that was all we were going to talk about.

[00:00:40] No more Indi, no more nails Tatla!

[00:00:43] No just call me Tatla!

[00:00:44] Call me Tatla from now on, that's it! You don't get to call me Indi!

[00:00:48] Why not?

[00:00:48] No, she's just deciding.

[00:00:50] Don't you dare Ryan! Ryan! Ryan!

[00:00:54] We've already had this chat about how culturally that's not allowed.

[00:00:59] Culturally we had that chat didn't we?

[00:01:02] I said, I'll just repeat my name because we will actually fall out and it is a red line!

[00:01:09] We had a red line on that so I can't believe you went there again.

[00:01:12] That was my red line!

[00:01:14] You kind of like tasty Tatla.

[00:01:16] No, that was my red line. The name was always my red line.

[00:01:20] Moving on.

[00:01:21] I love that boss.

[00:01:22] Going back to muting myself.

[00:01:24] Yeah you should.

[00:01:25] Yeah, get back in your cage Ryan.

[00:01:27] You'll never work with you again.

[00:01:28] You will, I will.

[00:01:29] Never going to work with you again now.

[00:01:31] Hello and welcome to another Digital's Necruel podcast.

[00:01:34] It's great to be back with another episode of we've got all the usual nonsense,

[00:01:39] interviews, news etc.

[00:01:41] And we'd just like to say thank you to free agent, the friendliest accounting software

[00:01:45] in the world for sponsoring this season.

[00:01:49] And indeed I'm going to come to you because your fingernail is back.

[00:01:53] So what else is going on in your life at the moment?

[00:01:56] Oh, I feel like I'm in recovery mode from the last few weeks, last week's shenanigans

[00:02:04] from Digital Accountancy, a different conference I had at Innovate Finances also in London,

[00:02:11] our networking events, the breakfast brunch that was held by LMH for Women in Accounting Tech

[00:02:19] and yeah, God that was a week wasn't it?

[00:02:23] It was indeed.

[00:02:23] It was a great week.

[00:02:26] Das was fabulous I thought.

[00:02:28] It was really really cool and hopefully our pre-con event went down pretty well with people that joined us

[00:02:33] and it was great to see that Women in Accounting Tech event happened in the morning.

[00:02:38] It was really really busy, I was very very impressed.

[00:02:40] But I eventually rolled out a bed and turned up at the venue in the morning.

[00:02:44] So it's great to see that we've got another new community happening in our space.

[00:02:48] And got to spend some time with the lovely Ryan Pearcey for most of the week.

[00:02:53] That was fun wasn't it Ryan?

[00:02:54] It was, it was, it was very fun and apart from when you were chastising me I had a very good time.

[00:03:00] Now and again, do you need a good chastising?

[00:03:03] It's what I've been told.

[00:03:05] He needs a good chastity out.

[00:03:06] He needs a good chastity out, lock him up for a minute's gauge.

[00:03:10] Keep me under control.

[00:03:11] Do your own work with me exclusively Ryan, that's the lesson.

[00:03:16] Yep, that's not terrifying at all.

[00:03:17] So yeah, it was a great show.

[00:03:20] Oh I know my hat.

[00:03:21] And we're dying my wonderful orange hat that everyone picked up on.

[00:03:26] I was given by Alicabank.

[00:03:28] It was very very nice.

[00:03:29] And yeah, I was on a massive high from Digital Accounts Show.

[00:03:35] Lots of new things to, yeah to look into from an app perspective,

[00:03:40] from an AI perspective and a great launch of our digital transformation accreditation

[00:03:47] which we're talking a lot more about in the in the current weeks and months.

[00:03:49] Given that we have this off the back of Daspony,

[00:03:51] we have a quick review of how we felt it was and what we took away from it,

[00:03:55] what was good, bad or indifferent and what was our general experience?

[00:04:00] I guess with what we do, John, is rare that we go to an account see

[00:04:04] conference and find lots of new apps but I found out that there was lots of new tech

[00:04:08] for me to you know get excited about.

[00:04:11] And probably not the ones that are brand new.

[00:04:13] There were some brand new and some that literally launched a month before

[00:04:16] which was crazy.

[00:04:18] How did you feel about discovering CCH and Iris?

[00:04:22] Well, I thought that really I thought CCH was further forward than it was but

[00:04:27] I think that's just a general perception.

[00:04:28] But like Mimo was one and they went all out of Daspony with some incredible

[00:04:36] donuts which seemed to get around the entire of the conference.

[00:04:40] And there was a couple more OCR expense capture tools because you've not got enough of them.

[00:04:47] And yeah, there was a lot out there like Client,

[00:04:49] when I had not experienced before lots of new tech.

[00:04:53] Yeah, I think I fairly said I was saying Client window possibly a fact

[00:04:58] or maybe the context of it.

[00:05:01] Yeah, it's interesting one.

[00:05:03] I think they've got an interesting time given that there have been a few other messaging

[00:05:08] apps near struggle to get traction but you can see that.

[00:05:10] Mimo like I said, you like we said were there.

[00:05:13] Engine had a good chat with them or had a very interesting chat with them actually.

[00:05:16] And we enjoyed their donuts and coffee afterwards.

[00:05:18] Although I would say I saw with the Nut allergy those donuts were a little bit of a

[00:05:23] trial by fire.

[00:05:25] Anyway, there you go.

[00:05:26] You win something or something.

[00:05:27] And then the apps that I saw which had been

[00:05:30] at the end of that I saw that the most incredible name which could only have come

[00:05:33] out off the back of listening to the podcast was Tugger.

[00:05:36] Oh yeah, you're not coming across Tugger before.

[00:05:38] I can't believe that.

[00:05:39] It's the only one thing you were like because of the name.

[00:05:41] Does anyone have not seen this before?

[00:05:43] He had a little chuckle to himself.

[00:05:45] And the irony is it's like they're down the rug because they're in Macclesfield.

[00:05:47] So they're already near the office.

[00:05:48] John, did you genuinely did you just sample the donuts without even looking at the fact

[00:05:53] that you have a nut allergy and which ones had nuts because they were covered?

[00:05:57] No, I did.

[00:05:58] I did see that they had pistachios on but they basically like lined the donuts,

[00:06:02] the non-nutty and the nutty donuts up together.

[00:06:04] There was no like separation so it was like, you know, you got to sort of

[00:06:08] get one and then sort of like wipe away the little bits of pistachio.

[00:06:12] It was like the awkward at the Mimos stand.

[00:06:14] I think that the bit that I find interesting, big launch, obviously very big launch into the industry,

[00:06:22] last year, April was pretty big on the launch, right?

[00:06:26] Alec was pretty big as well on their launch.

[00:06:29] And now it's just interesting to see and then the year before that was

[00:06:33] Libio, right?

[00:06:36] Libio was quite big.

[00:06:38] Who's the other one at the same time that we had?

[00:06:41] What, the other payments?

[00:06:42] The other parents?

[00:06:43] Yeah, that was at the same time.

[00:06:44] Karma was before that.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:47] There was a bit of cyclical nature to it so I'm quite intrigued to see how

[00:06:51] the rest of the year and the season fers.

[00:06:54] April was still fairly big at this digital accountancy.

[00:06:59] It seems like they're going really strong and we caught up with them for a little bit as well.

[00:07:04] Again just off the back of the last podcast he was really

[00:07:07] quite evangelical about the next steps of what it could mean for their data capture

[00:07:13] and what they're doing on April and how it will link to cards and how

[00:07:18] even though you've got your your pleos and some of the other

[00:07:21] expense card apps out there, the link between that and the payable.

[00:07:26] So he seemed very resolute in his vision of where April and we'll go and how that's going

[00:07:32] to link to more of these expense cards that weren't there.

[00:07:34] Although there were quite a few different expense card products out.

[00:07:38] I didn't really catch up with most of them and so I saw

[00:07:41] Pliu was payhawk there as well if I'm not mistaken and there was

[00:07:47] paycarda was another one which I only briefly spoke to.

[00:07:52] So some gaps and little ones there and then there was quite a few that I thought were just

[00:08:00] again like on the upper mezzanine level new ones.

[00:08:05] There was some that were more around reconciliation as well.

[00:08:09] Obviously we saw translucent but then there were some other smaller apps that were released

[00:08:14] that were to do the reconciliation piece as well and the data and then Yaman

[00:08:19] at Genesis as well.

[00:08:20] Yaman, Aman, Nicolay at Genesis.

[00:08:24] So Ryan you spoke about that because they're kind of what they're doing and how they're

[00:08:28] working with reconciliation and AI.

[00:08:31] What did you find interesting about them?

[00:08:34] What I found just mind blowing was how they stacked out the demo stage.

[00:08:38] It went nuts when they were demonstrating the product like it was not just standing remotely

[00:08:43] it was still space from the main stage it was that busy and I think that's what

[00:08:50] demonstrates the excitement about utilizing AI to kind of remove the mundane task.

[00:08:57] With OCR it's sort of captured towards what they've been doing quite a bit but not

[00:09:02] they've just accentuated whereas I think the excitement is how much can we now automate.

[00:09:08] So yeah as the buzz is nuts and I saw Nicolay post afterwards and I think the struggle

[00:09:15] for him is going to be keeping up with the interest at the moment.

[00:09:18] Yeah there's a huge amount of interest for their demo and I noticed it because I was about

[00:09:22] to go on the main stage whilst they were completing a demo and you can just see

[00:09:25] the enormous crowd that they had.

[00:09:30] I mean that interest has extended out to Australia already because I had there was a post on one

[00:09:34] of the Facebook groups on Partha where people were asking questions about it off the back

[00:09:37] of the promo that they had.

[00:09:39] The one thing that I didn't get chance to capture with properly was the guys

[00:09:43] on Vox for that on their stand and see what their day was like I don't know if you guys

[00:09:48] caught on with them but because obviously they were one of the big sponsors and I've

[00:09:52] started stumbling on Nicolay.

[00:09:53] Yeah I did not it looked busy at times and quiet other and so it'd be hard to gauge exactly

[00:09:59] how well they did like most of the time I got around to the after on the Thursday

[00:10:04] where because the the is it Thursday?

[00:10:07] No Wednesday the Tuesday was rammed like trying to move around was actually quite

[00:10:12] challenging and most people were going to the talks whereas the the Wednesday was a bit

[00:10:17] a bit quiet and you actually go around after some decent demonstrations

[00:10:20] but what did you guys think of the talks because we had Gary Turner back and he was talking on I

[00:10:24] guess a bit about what fed into a little note to Translucent.

[00:10:28] We had Jason Statz over from America talking about AI and controlling the weather which was

[00:10:33] incredible making it literally thunder just as he mentioned that about how AI was taking our

[00:10:40] jobs and then we had you know some other interesting semi-desense speakers like John

[00:10:46] who did a lot of talks as well.

[00:10:49] From my part of you because I did five talks over two hours I was absolutely exhausted by the end of

[00:10:55] it but I mean I saw Jason Statz on day two I missed Gary actually which is very disappointing on

[00:11:01] day one so I really wanted to see to see that.

[00:11:05] I did catch some of the smaller talks around the periphery and the various cons which were

[00:11:11] you know which were pretty good.

[00:11:13] I actually missed most of the main stage ones so and that was

[00:11:16] part of Jason on the second day and it was one of the biggest but

[00:11:20] yeah I thought the quality of talks was really good.

[00:11:21] I thought the breadth of the topics and what was being covered and actually the abilities

[00:11:26] to take insights away was really really helpful so yeah I thought in general pretty

[00:11:34] good and I think with the main stage having the headsets as well as silent

[00:11:40] disco headsets which they didn't have last time worked better as well because it meant

[00:11:44] it was less distracting when you if you weren't attending the talk so if you were

[00:11:47] you know other spaces because that did take a little bit last time.

[00:11:50] I think um yeah I think the one thing that was slightly disappointing was kind of like

[00:11:55] the after party vibe was a little bit different in terms of um I'm not sure they quite got

[00:12:00] it right because it didn't make any space in the main area for so like the DJs off

[00:12:06] the bandaroo thing so ended up outside in the um in the marquee which is okay but it

[00:12:11] felt a little bit disparate at times.

[00:12:14] Yeah agreed I'd say that was and it wasn't really anything bad about the show but

[00:12:18] that was definitely the bit that hadn't improved from prior years it'd gone

[00:12:21] slightly backwards and that can happen but um you know if that's the the worst part of it

[00:12:26] I think you've had a very successful event because that's not where the value is right

[00:12:29] that's just the the entertainment at the end.

[00:12:32] Yeah then definitely there was a lot of a clearer way of working so

[00:12:38] you could take on the talks and there were breakout spaces that you could digest a little

[00:12:42] bit more so you could go off and have a meeting or just sit and do some work.

[00:12:48] There's enough space to reflect because I think that was the challenge with most of these events

[00:12:54] is that you end up taking on so much information practically you don't know how to execute

[00:13:02] any one part of it because you're going from one talk to another and then going into areas

[00:13:07] where you're talking with all the vendors and it can be quite overwhelming so I quite liked

[00:13:13] the fact that there was a bit more breakout and it was interesting to see the little

[00:13:22] dialogue areas that were set up so they were kind of small little sessions

[00:13:28] look slightly like AA meetings and people in a circle but I actually think they worked really

[00:13:33] well because it was more that you could speak directly to one or two people and take

[00:13:42] reflection on all the inputs that you had rather than being sort of sad and kind of just trying

[00:13:48] to navigate the different out vendors. The one thing that sometimes I find a little bit intense

[00:13:55] is because the lighting is so intense in Das, it's dark and it's kind of got the like the

[00:14:02] beams of light all the way across. I do find that people crave that need to just go straight back

[00:14:09] outside again so they can't stay under cover of darkness for too long without them wanting to

[00:14:14] circle back outside and it does seem like that because you find that lobby area and the marquee

[00:14:21] area is such high footfall and I think that's just natural human tendency to want to kind

[00:14:27] of like keep circling back outside and then go take a deep breath and go back in and do a circle.

[00:14:33] I think it's because they don't have many auditors or insolvent practitioners going and that's what

[00:14:37] it is, I mean otherwise they just be inside in the dark all the time. I think also they have

[00:14:43] all the food and the coffee etc mainly outside there would be an obvious toilet that's pretty

[00:14:46] much all out in that lobby area so you kind of got to get out there if you need to use it

[00:14:51] to sell a drink or whatever so yeah I think it's quite good I think it is a natural conduit

[00:14:56] to make people move around a little bit more and you know obviously the weather was a bit different

[00:15:01] this time because last time we were in June and it was scorching hot outside so a lot of people

[00:15:04] spent more time outside whereas I think as Ryan said there was that massive thunder clap and then

[00:15:10] there was hail and the rain came down for a period of time which just coincided pretty

[00:15:16] much like the lunchtime rush as well so yeah I think it's good to have that space.

[00:15:23] One thing I observed that was slightly interesting you know I would of course observe this anyway

[00:15:28] but for the last few years when we've gone there's been more in the way of lending,

[00:15:34] lending aggregators. What I noticed this year was it was only swoop really unless

[00:15:39] I'm mistaken there was only swoop in the room that were exhibiting. Yeah I think you're right

[00:15:43] I don't remember any others there. Yeah and I think in previous years because we had funding

[00:15:49] options attend or we've had capitalise or we've had in another like you know you've always had

[00:15:55] some other presence I did see a small stand from Starling Bank there but it's obviously different

[00:15:59] because it's a bang but I did observe that and I thought that was quite interesting obviously

[00:16:06] swoop going from strength to strength anyway because they were expanding so globally by the

[00:16:11] sound of it but that was one of the other things I noted. Also the employment hero best

[00:16:18] swag ever at Rowan you saw the the hat as well what a cool hat. I don't know why you keep that

[00:16:24] locks in a cupboard I instantly came back and I was like see I bought you a hat just totally

[00:16:30] claiming credit for the employment hero hat. I didn't even get a hat look at that so so

[00:16:35] bothered me I did remember the employment heroes done. Your head's too big. Locked away that's on

[00:16:40] display on display. You should have like you should have heads you should have your own

[00:16:45] head 3d printed and you could buy hats on top of it Rowan. Because people need more copies of me

[00:16:50] that's what they need in their life. I do actually have a queen printer so this could be something

[00:16:56] that we start handing out as our swag. Oh if you just get desperate just get some really big like

[00:17:01] be me or ostrich eggs. Yeah also cheap. Are you calling Rowan an ostrich egg? I bet if you draw

[00:17:09] a face on one you won't be able to tell a difference. Wow. It's an upside down one though

[00:17:14] because the point's downwards. Yeah make sure you make sure you get it right. You have to get

[00:17:18] like a little circular stand like a kicking to you and rugby to put it on top of it. Oh yeah.

[00:17:22] Top of over. Yeah can someone source those for me please. Community. Okay so was there anything

[00:17:29] else from Das? I think it was really good. I think the vibe was great. I think the two days

[00:17:35] pretty much worked as well. I think going into it I had some concern that the second day might

[00:17:39] be a lot quieter and it definitely was quieter even though the content across both days was

[00:17:46] quite even with spread. Definitely was quieter on the second day but I don't think it was so quiet

[00:17:52] so much quieter than the first day that it was hugely noticeable and maybe that's because

[00:17:57] you know the after party stuff didn't really kick off in a quite it wasn't it wasn't quite

[00:18:01] quite as bonkers. I know you know we were in the hotel party so it was just definitely

[00:18:06] but it wasn't crazy crazy night. I don't like it husband and wife events. That's true.

[00:18:10] There were a load of stands that I didn't really get a chance to catch up with. I would have liked

[00:18:14] to have checked in with Iplissip, Exledjo, Circuit which I think so you guys managed to check in

[00:18:21] with. But yeah I think that it would be good to get some of those. Also Iplissip did track me

[00:18:29] down in the evening and there are some pictures that I believe are coming out

[00:18:34] in the next month or so. Oh with the masks? Yes with the masks so yeah we somehow got

[00:18:41] roped into a marketing campaign I believe they're doing. You know I got roped into wearing masks

[00:18:47] I mean it's probably because I had quite a lot of free Perseco and free Vs courtesy of us and then

[00:18:52] Data Snipper so you know what you do. Oh Data Snipper yeah they had a big exclusive little

[00:19:00] hour, didn't they? They did it. It was very good. I enjoyed. Yeah enjoyed catching up with those guys.

[00:19:06] They had a bit of a nightmare as well because they flew in they were supposed to fly in and

[00:19:08] like Monday afternoon didn't arrive until the early morning Tuesday because all the

[00:19:13] flights were horrifically delayed so they don't think some of them even made it into London

[00:19:17] until about three o'clock in the morning of the show which is pretty grim. Oh dear well

[00:19:22] here's to another DAS. Indeed looking forward to already an April tools day of all

[00:19:27] days as well so let's look forward to Ryan's talks on the morning of the first day. Yep that's the bit

[00:19:33] everyone should be coming for main stage as well. Big boy stage you've got to sit on the edge angle

[00:19:37] your legs. I'll be next to a plethora of ostrich eggs with hats on. I think that's a perfect time

[00:19:44] to pivot into aptly isn't it? HRC made a fairly recent announcement that from May of this year

[00:19:53] so May 2024 that they are going to begin implementing the new Gov.uk one login service

[00:20:03] which unfortunately seems to remind me of like one coin in that whole like

[00:20:08] your scam that happened a few years ago so I'm not sure they've chosen a great

[00:20:12] your name for this thing but essentially what one login is supposed to be trying to achieve

[00:20:17] is to make it easier to access government services whether you're a consumer I guess or

[00:20:23] an individual or whether you're an organization business or could you believe it an accountant

[00:20:28] providing services as an agent and this whole premise is to allow you to have like

[00:20:35] effectively one singular login so that you can access all the relevant services that you need

[00:20:40] and I guess in its initial premise and form that's a great thing because I know accountants

[00:20:49] really struggle with multiple logins for you know multiple services my biggest thing I think from

[00:20:55] mid-sized firm point of view is that one login and the new Gov.uk service should allow things like

[00:21:01] single sign on which will make it a little bit easier for larger firms in particular to

[00:21:05] manage users and things like that and it gets away from having shared credentials for services

[00:21:10] which is which is always a little bit of a risk particularly as staff come and go over here at the time

[00:21:16] yeah definitely I think the biggest problem from my side is the

[00:21:20] from a risk perspective why go to the government gateway at the same time that you keep talking

[00:21:24] about pulling all phone support it just baffles me but yeah I mean like it needs to happen

[00:21:31] I probably would have tested on a less risky area first but they've gone all in

[00:21:36] yeah they have and they're expecting it to be done within a year so

[00:21:39] yeah that's that's rapid right something else the government are doing so they're offering to fund

[00:21:46] AI skills upgrades anyone that is a professional and business service firm or operates within

[00:21:54] professional scientific and technical activities or administrative and support services

[00:21:59] is eligible to apply for a grant of up to 50% for AI skills training only so not the cost of any

[00:22:08] software that can be purchased or technology no business advice or consulting no recruitment

[00:22:13] activity or salaries or capital expenditure but if you are an accounting firm and you're registered

[00:22:19] and operating the UK employed between one to 249 employees and be defined are defined sorry as a

[00:22:28] small or medium-sized enterprise operating for at least one year and have the ability to match

[00:22:33] the funds of 50% of the cost of the training then you are eligible to apply for the government's

[00:22:40] flexible AI upskilling fund which is designed to boost skills and increase productivity

[00:22:47] by allowing you to get some support on the funding of upskilling for accounting bookkeeping

[00:22:54] and audit services I think this is going to sell out overnight I think there's so many people that

[00:23:02] are interested in learning how to use AI and it's a completely different skill set that

[00:23:07] they'll go okay well we need to do the training we get 50% basically for free let's do it yeah

[00:23:12] they're making about 6.4 million in grant funding available so it probably will be still relatively

[00:23:20] competitive it's a great initiative that they're at least trying to implement some sort of upskilling

[00:23:27] given that I don't really think that we saw as much of this in any of the other types of

[00:23:34] general purpose technologies or softwares that came out so it's great that if there's

[00:23:39] some sort of productivity boost that can be had then yeah I'd make the application

[00:23:46] yeah oh we've already registered our interest so hopefully when the application is open which I

[00:23:50] think is next month then hopefully we'll be on the on the receiving end of a positive response

[00:23:56] which will be very exciting to see but I think I think one of my slight concerns about this scheme

[00:24:02] I mean there's great to see money pumped into this and everything else but I think one of my

[00:24:06] slight concerns is that this could potentially be taken advantage of because like how many good

[00:24:12] AI training organizations and individuals are there out there that really know what they're

[00:24:16] doing and can upskill a you know a business's staff base to be able to put practical things into use

[00:24:22] I mean you know we're 18 months or so not even that into the whole chat gpt in large language

[00:24:29] models phenomenon which has been happening and you know there's probably only one or two people

[00:24:33] I would say are standout individuals in our space that really you know I've got a good handle

[00:24:39] on what's what in in large language model space and could really demonstrate value

[00:24:45] so that's going to be really interesting to see and the other thing is they've not really got the

[00:24:48] best track record remember the help to grow digital scheme that we spoke about it's such a

[00:24:54] crap sign-up rate sorry probably a better word that could be used there but not the best sign-up

[00:24:59] rate and not very many vendors and cost us I know in order of about 30 something million

[00:25:08] to the taxpayer then there was point one after a year I think it was Deloitte wasn't it they did

[00:25:13] pretty well out of it so somebody somebody got somebody somebody out someone won that's that's

[00:25:18] the problem isn't it was mid-sized firms that's what we need we need a bit of government consultancy

[00:25:22] on failed schemes and it would be all right that's what we need right well I've got something on a

[00:25:27] eye from across the pond so we talked about intuit assist before and they've built that

[00:25:33] into turbo tax over in the US and Canada and I think it's really well it's showing what I think

[00:25:41] it's going to come over to the UK in the near future and I'll talk a little bit about that

[00:25:45] shortly but what essentially it's doing is for personal tax returns in Turbo tax which is a

[00:25:51] personal tax return piece of software owned by Intuit it creates a personalized checklist

[00:25:57] for any documents that you would expect based on your I guess how you've operated in the past

[00:26:03] and then it will I guess prompt you to send in those documents when you do it automatically reads

[00:26:09] analyzes and extracts the data from those documents and pre-fills them into the attach forms and then

[00:26:15] reviews it itself to correct mistakes based on any anomalies or outliers based on normal

[00:26:21] parameters it would expect to expect to find and then once it's done all that it then

[00:26:28] searches an online database of tax concessions to calculate the largest possible tax break and

[00:26:33] gamifies it based on I guess scaling up how many you can achieve to you know save the most amount

[00:26:40] of tax and I just think that that is where we are going from I guess the utilisation of AI

[00:26:47] people have been asking us well how is it going to change the industry that is a perfect

[00:26:50] example of how it's going to change the industry and I would not be surprised if they bring this

[00:26:54] over to the UK. I mean a very complicated tax scheme in the UK but yeah we'll bring it over to the UK

[00:27:00] in the future I know some systems are already starting to do this especially the extraction

[00:27:05] part and pre-filling of forms over in the UK I know CCH are doing that and our T-TECH via the

[00:27:12] PracticScapeware platform but it's nuts like that this is already present and operational in

[00:27:18] some form over in the US considering as John said how new the larger language models are

[00:27:25] over you know by 18 months less than 18 months. Do you think this is going to be similar to

[00:27:31] what the guy is at tax on demand are trying to achieve? Yeah I think there's an element of it

[00:27:35] what I'd say is they've taken part of what I guess tax on demand are doing part on what CCH are

[00:27:40] doing and bringing it all into one product and the brilliant thing I love is you know we

[00:27:44] always see that it's really successful these tools where you gamify it and you make people want to

[00:27:49] engage. Now the bit that's really questionable at this stage is how much are people going to trust

[00:27:54] the AI and how much are they still going to want to talk to an accountant because if they start

[00:27:58] trusting the AI in full then realistically we're starting these tax professionals are starting

[00:28:05] to worry about their jobs from a compliance perspective so what do we do now as tax

[00:28:10] professionals to enhance our service to overcome this? But a lot of taxes is a gated binary thing

[00:28:19] right isn't it you earn so much you pay so much tax you make a capital gain of so much you pay so

[00:28:24] much capital gains tax you're married or you're not you can take the married couples allowance

[00:28:29] or not you can you know a lot of these things you know even though there is significant complexity

[00:28:36] and certainly in the UK tax system and other ones a lot of it can certainly be programmed

[00:28:42] it's just that it would take someone of very long time to work your way through that and to build

[00:28:46] all the necessary scenarios, pensaries and why you know we have big spreadsheets and complicated

[00:28:51] tax products and things. Yeah well let's see AI might just do it all for us. Well I've got

[00:28:58] another big piece of news so Employment Hero the HR and payroll platform has acquired

[00:29:03] Employment Innovations its sister company which basically is a payroll bureau mostly based over in

[00:29:09] Australia or Australia, Australasia and it's now expanding into the UK and beyond so what this

[00:29:17] means is that they are shutting down access to the payroll bureau side of Employment Hero so if

[00:29:23] you're an accountancy firm that we're exploring Employment Hero I wanted to start using that

[00:29:28] to run your payroll bureau at least for now they are shutting off access. Now I guess that does create

[00:29:34] a bit of concern in the market about those that are already using the tool and there's been a lot of

[00:29:40] I guess you know building back of confidence in their accounting community that you're still

[00:29:45] going to be able to use the platform it's full but obviously they've got a big push now into

[00:29:51] pushing both the software and the payroll as a service. I believe they charge something

[00:29:57] in the UK £12 per employee per month so it's quite expensive as a tool compared to potentially a lot

[00:30:05] of other payroll bureaus out there but yeah big change it'll be interesting to see how people

[00:30:12] react to this. Yeah I'm quite surprised that Employment Hero have effectively closed themselves

[00:30:20] off to bureaus I mean we were in discussions about potentially looking at a move and that's

[00:30:26] now been kind of washed by that so we shall we shall sit and wait maybe choose and also.

[00:30:32] My gut is they'll probably roll back on that and continue to work with accounting firms

[00:30:36] and bureaus in the future but we'll just have to wait and see but the interesting part of this

[00:30:41] is that they haven't I guess we would discuss before Employment Hero payroll bureau powers

[00:30:48] the new really released QuickBooks payroll bureau and the pricing point for that is so

[00:30:54] ridiculously low that if anyone's been looking at the just the payroll bureau side of Employment Hero

[00:31:00] just go over and use the QuickBooks one like you pretty much get in the same

[00:31:03] buy system and you're paying a tiny amount for it. You don't get any of the HR functionality

[00:31:09] which is a big negative because the fully integrated HR payroll solution is really

[00:31:13] powerful but yeah it's just a weird play. In other news a product called MIMO which

[00:31:21] I know some people in the UK have maybe come across have now formally launched in the UK

[00:31:26] having just raised 15 and a half million pounds or about 18 million euros from a whole bunch of

[00:31:33] investors from North Zone, Fost, Upfin, VC, Coco, Seedcamp and some angel investors that they

[00:31:40] already had in place. MIMO is a product that's not going around but going for long

[00:31:44] it's been around for about 15 months it's I think I'm gonna get this wrong but I think

[00:31:50] it's Danish or Finnish origins and I had a look at the product and oh gosh probably just before

[00:31:58] Christmas and it's an interesting product. I didn't think it was quite there yet when I looked at it

[00:32:03] there was some polishing that needed to be done but essentially what MIMO is trying to do

[00:32:09] is it's trying to bring a whole bunch of things together into one app and this is

[00:32:12] going to sound incredibly familiar because I feel like we talk about this quite regularly on the

[00:32:15] pod but they're really focusing in on payments in the first instance business payments with

[00:32:22] credit facilities built into that so they have this concept of MIMO flex which is essentially a

[00:32:28] credit product that allows them to pay suppliers in advance of your due dates and stuff so you

[00:32:36] can draw down capital in advance to ease your cash flow cycle. You've also got payments around

[00:32:44] payroll and normal standard payments which you're kind of familiar if you're using

[00:32:49] things like NUC or Tellarue or other kinds of things and then they've also going to be bringing

[00:32:54] out accounts receivable inbound receipts as well into the product and alongside that they've got

[00:33:00] the ability to do OCR and extraction of invoices and things but there if you go on the website

[00:33:05] you'll see that a main focus at the moment is around those payments. They do have a free

[00:33:10] version which allows you to do unlimited payroll payments and then five supply payments a month

[00:33:15] and then it goes up to 39 pounds a month for the pro version which is again unlimited payroll

[00:33:20] payments but up to 200 supply payments a month and yeah I think it's going to be fascinating

[00:33:26] I think to watch a product like MIMO over the next few months I think they're going to be at

[00:33:30] some of the big shows so DAS and Accountex and this is becoming a fairly noisy space to

[00:33:38] operate in and again they are there integrating with all the usual suspects zero quick bugs stage

[00:33:43] etc. Is it pre-approved there John? Is credit built in but is it pre-approved because

[00:33:52] it is based on the data or are we still, it looks like it's still a separate cost from the

[00:34:01] pricing that you have you have to pay a fee if I'm not. Yes there is so there is a fee yeah

[00:34:06] I'm not too familiar with what the fees are I think on the website if you look at it I think there's a

[00:34:10] 2% fee for a delay in by 30 days and 4% for a delay in by 60 days. I don't know how that breaks down

[00:34:16] into some real numbers and APRs and things like that because I think it's on a case by case

[00:34:23] and they don't seem to publish it as far as I could tell but yeah there's just not enough

[00:34:30] information on the website unfortunately to kind of figure it out. 50 SMB accountants have helped

[00:34:37] secure I guess the pilot by the look of it so it's still early days do we know anyone that's using

[00:34:43] it? I'm not familiar with any accountants that are using it like say I did have a look at it

[00:34:50] early days and I'm reasonably impressed with it I know that they've particularly targeted

[00:34:56] businesses and that's where they've picked up the majority of their users from time being which

[00:35:01] I think again it's a sensible thing because I think that direct to market players is probably

[00:35:06] better than trying to build an accountant channel but there is a free platform for accountants if

[00:35:10] you want to try it. Very interesting it sounds like an amalgamation of what you're saying is some

[00:35:15] of the payment technologies we've seen like APRN or NUC mixed together with an iWocer who would

[00:35:24] allow you to do some sort of flexible payment term for a specific payable or invoice or actually not

[00:35:32] payable invoice so yeah absolutely and then I think when they build in the the receipt side

[00:35:38] that they receive you know the sales receivable side I think you'll end up with a bit of a

[00:35:43] sale I don't know a stripe type hybrid as well with that remind me MIMO stands for money in

[00:35:50] money out right correct yes got it MIMO and it's powered by modular so that's that's the

[00:35:57] that's the using to pay who power Revolute as well I've got something from iPlicit they have been

[00:36:04] moving or making big inroads into the housing association market and from what I can tell

[00:36:09] not making massive changes to their product but because there's a lot of products that come

[00:36:14] into the end in that space end of life they're basically moving in saying our product

[00:36:19] can fill this they've got lots of functionality already that can handle it such as partial VAT

[00:36:23] calculation group consolidation and a very advanced and flexible reporting which should

[00:36:29] mean that anything in them any housing association to that mid tier space can get all of their

[00:36:34] needs from iPlicit something more from iPlicit as well they have done some work that is going

[00:36:41] to help charities and tackle partial VAT so it's quite an onerous task for most of the

[00:36:47] charities especially those that work with or raise money from commercial ventures such as retail sales

[00:36:53] or events and it can be quite difficult to it takes a good couple of days for a senior member

[00:37:01] of the finance department to calculate the year end so iPlicit has extended its range of features

[00:37:08] to take the labour out of the VAT related tasks they can apply for partial VAT in one

[00:37:14] of two ways as a percentage figure agreed with HMRC and applied to applicable transactions or

[00:37:20] by comparing the VATable turnover with total turnover at the end of the period

[00:37:24] and applying and adjusting retrospectively to their accounts so most of the time these things

[00:37:30] have caused significant problems to budget holders because they're not sure how much they've

[00:37:35] actually how much is owed to HMRC and they end up paying a little bit too much

[00:37:40] I actually had someone who was in this exact same problem running a charity at the moment

[00:37:46] and they have said that they have come across issues because most of their sales are from retail sales

[00:37:51] and they're a small charity a really great choir no one's heard of them before they are

[00:37:57] Votches 8 so give them a listen that's Votches is V-O-C-E-S-8 and you will thank me later but

[00:38:05] anyway they were talking about this same issue and so I think it's a really good

[00:38:10] fix for iPlicit to roll out to most of its charity clients.

[00:38:15] I think it's really clever, I think it's really clever to actually be able to do it live as

[00:38:19] well as a transaction cycle because I think that's one of the big issues with a lot of

[00:38:22] partial exemption calculations tools that are within other products and we've built

[00:38:27] something that works with zero for example but you can only really do it effectively

[00:38:32] at a month end or a quarter end when you do the battery turn so we're not capable at the

[00:38:36] moment of being able to do this on the fly transaction by transaction and Paul's absolutely

[00:38:42] right you know this is where charities non-profits really struggle is actually having

[00:38:45] really good visibility of what the impact of that partial exemption claim can be

[00:38:48] and I've dealt with charities where those claims can swing from being really big to

[00:38:52] really small depending on what type of activity they're doing at any one part of the year and

[00:38:57] it's really it is very challenging for them to get across that and understand the impact.

[00:39:00] How many other softwares are working on that sort of piece in the accounting sector at the moment?

[00:39:06] This tends to be the preserve of the larger more complex accounting products

[00:39:11] that have some familiarity with the charitable sector in particular

[00:39:17] so yeah the more standard more familiar cloud accounting products just don't have this as an

[00:39:22] out-of-the-box feature or even an add-on really that's out there. There's definitely a good

[00:39:27] opportunity there for someone maybe we'll get there eventually with our products.

[00:39:35] I'm delighted to be joined by Tony Stevenson from FreeAgent who are one of our sponsors

[00:39:41] at Digital Disruptors and of course a seasoned sponsor for the podcast at the moment so Tony

[00:39:47] why don't you just quickly introduce yourself and then we'll get into how you felt that's

[00:39:52] what's given the bit of it all the last week. A pleasure thank you very much for having me

[00:39:56] on mate it's been a quiet goal of mine to sneak my way onto this this pod for a little while so

[00:40:02] I don't like to ask because I feel like it's just you know a test of your network so

[00:40:07] I'm glad that due to our sponsorship I could be here it's a good crack but yeah I've been

[00:40:11] looking forward to this for a while so my background so I spent the first kind of half

[00:40:16] my career bouncing sort of around practice and industry I never quite found my spiritual home

[00:40:22] shall we say. I trained with the big four a couple years in industry and then worked for a smaller firm

[00:40:28] that sort of nicely splits my career in half so I then jumped out and went to work for zero so

[00:40:33] zero for a couple of years in the original incarnation of what is the practice consulting

[00:40:38] team very different now it might be one or two faces that are still there. I took a year

[00:40:45] out to go traveling had a couple of other shorter stints at other software houses and I've been

[00:40:49] at free agent now for closing in on six years next month all the month after June I think it was so

[00:40:54] yeah a variable lifer in our world right in the tech world so yeah. Well it makes you

[00:41:02] it makes me very special and anything about six years and a tech business not in it. I know that's

[00:41:07] a long old time and I've done I've done about four different jobs at free agent in that time

[00:41:10] so maybe that's maybe that's the secret to my longevity but well maybe it is absolutely

[00:41:17] so we've just been talking about Digital Accounts show on the on the park and just getting our own

[00:41:21] views but we'd love to get a vendor perspective on you know on how it went obviously you guys

[00:41:27] had a fairly big presence there and I know Kirsty and some of the other gang were doing

[00:41:33] solar talks as well so go on give it to us. I guess the headlines really well

[00:41:41] really really well I think we have we've grown our presence at the DAS over the years that it's

[00:41:48] been running so we started off with quite a small stand and each year we've sort of pushed a bit

[00:41:52] bigger as DAS has got a bit bigger. I think it's a testament to what they've created when

[00:42:01] the beginning bit starts and all the layers start going and you basically see everybody sort of

[00:42:05] standing there with their phones recording which is a bit of an alien sight at an accounting

[00:42:09] conference so yeah I think they've created something really cool and I think that from a vendor

[00:42:14] perspective events are you know we love them it's great to get out and meet our partners but it can

[00:42:21] it can be challenging sometimes to get through to be speaking to the right people

[00:42:25] so you know we're happy to help anybody on their digital journey but really we kind of want to

[00:42:32] be speaking to those that are kind of ready to go and you know even sort of 15 plus years into this

[00:42:40] cloud revolution we're still you know they're still in the minority of numbers but I think

[00:42:44] they've done a really good job of getting the right people there who are ready to talk tech

[00:42:50] and we talked a lot of tech so yeah kind of headlines really really good to hear some

[00:42:56] brilliant conversations. And how does that look and feel for you because obviously

[00:43:02] digital accounts show kind of prides itself on attracting as you said the kind of the

[00:43:06] audience that wants to embrace technology and to a degree you kind of imagine that those firms

[00:43:12] and representatives there that are probably familiar with free agent may well already be partners

[00:43:17] with your stuff so how do you how do you carve out new opportunities for free agent

[00:43:21] so that it is a success that's worth the investment you guys made. So I think that

[00:43:26] historically we played really well in the sort of smaller end of the

[00:43:31] accounts you practice and bookkeeping practice world and we do partner with a bunch of bigger firms but

[00:43:38] they're really the bit where we've really kind of got it on sort of lockdown is that smaller

[00:43:46] end and what we're doing our project over I guess probably the next three years probably

[00:43:52] is to work out how we take that success and move it up the size of firms because I think

[00:43:56] we're ready to do that now I think we've got the right people in place the right kind of focus

[00:44:01] so it's starting to have those conversations and to be able to kind of say you know those

[00:44:06] hard things that we wanted to tackle making it easier to make free agent as a choice so

[00:44:13] we're I guess fortunate in that we're not in that you know a million two million users in the

[00:44:19] UK so when we're talking to people we are still talking to new firms it's not a case of it just

[00:44:24] being a support exercise because we already partner with everybody so there's there's plenty of new

[00:44:30] and also kind of people coming back and looking at us again saying you know I looked at you

[00:44:33] five years ago ten years ago and actually I'll keep hearing noise about you and actually

[00:44:38] it's time to to to relook at things so yeah plenty of that and from me personally I've worked

[00:44:45] quite hard to get myself into a position where I can just kind of wander around and talk to whoever

[00:44:51] I want to talk to so that's a nice place to be exactly right and I've worked quite hard to get

[00:44:56] there so I've made the absolute most of that and I mean you just mentioned there that

[00:45:03] maybe quite a few people come up to you and sort of say they're familiar with free agent

[00:45:07] a few years ago but I mean that that is a that is a long time in the SaaS world right

[00:45:12] particularly from a for a product that's under constant development let alone you know we're

[00:45:16] joking about the longevity of people in roles but yeah what what has you know for someone who maybe

[00:45:23] hasn't come across free agent for a while and it doesn't look to the project for a product for a while

[00:45:28] how are you guys for a position yourselves now and against the wider market and competitions

[00:45:32] have it so I think if you sort of had that kind of matrix of like small practice small

[00:45:38] client bottom left hand corner and then big practice big clients at top right hand corner

[00:45:42] and we very much started in the bottom left hand corner so we were less practice focused more

[00:45:47] kind of end user focused and very much focused on the contractor and then what sort of happened

[00:45:52] over time is we've grown out to be sort of we consider ourselves micro you know it's

[00:45:57] useful for the micro business and then we move into the we're moving sort of into the

[00:46:01] small right so we're never going to be 100 person firms 200 person firms but you know

[00:46:05] 20 30 people you know we're building out the feature set that makes that

[00:46:09] makes that manageable on free agent and we're always doing everything through the lens of like

[00:46:14] how can we make this thing really simple and if we can't continue to make it simple then

[00:46:19] it's probably not for us we're happy to let the people kind of delve into that so and then

[00:46:24] sort of following on from that the shift towards a more practice focused experience as well so

[00:46:29] we always kind of had really good feedback on yes a good bit of kit to use for our end users

[00:46:36] because they just kind of get hold of it and use it in the way that we kind of hoped that they would

[00:46:41] and then what we get out the other end is not garbage so that makes a difference because then

[00:46:47] you're onto a solid foot right you're not having to deal with an unhappy person who can't

[00:46:51] use the piece of software that you recommended you're not having to then do too much cleanup

[00:46:54] hopefully and we hope to be able to kind of bring the practice experience in line with that end user

[00:47:00] experience and just you know continue to creep it sort of into the larger practices and into the

[00:47:06] last slightly larger businesses so that so that they're able to get the same experience out of

[00:47:12] it with that same sort of built through the lens of simplicity and easy to use type approach

[00:47:17] that makes sense and I guess also you know so particularly if you're going after larger

[00:47:22] firms I guess there's a degree of capability there for them to be able to partner with more

[00:47:28] than one product right which is maybe not quite as prevalent in the smaller smaller firm environment

[00:47:32] and I saw a thing from from Clayton Oates great mate of mine is over in Australia

[00:47:37] you're commenting on something else he's posted on LinkedIn earlier about the fact that he

[00:47:41] sort of really appreciates the three to one concept you know where you have you know

[00:47:46] three products you really understand two of them you're an expert in one of them and

[00:47:50] having that means that you can accommodate more clients and just deal with your better

[00:47:56] better ways of managing businesses indeed I think the you know we're pretty pragmatic about

[00:48:02] about things we're not um we're not expecting to go into most practices and then just blanket

[00:48:08] implement free agent across all their clients so that's not how it works I mean we don't want

[00:48:12] 150 person manufacturing business trying to use free agent because they'll fail pretty quickly

[00:48:15] and a pretty miserable experience of it so yeah we're happy to stay in our lane and play with

[00:48:23] play with the other practices where they're where they're the right fit perfect well thanks for

[00:48:27] turning that's a great little summary and I'm glad to hear that Daft was was as good for you as

[00:48:32] it was for many of us who attended as you know it's just mere attendings and you've got to

[00:48:37] see the you know the tenders and everything else that's going on in the talks etc but yeah

[00:48:42] thanks very much what is it about you and doing the DIY the week and failing miserably Ryan

[00:48:50] I don't know I was I wanted to plant some plants and the garden was just full of bricks

[00:48:57] literally I'm just digging out bricks and I am broken can barely function this is the joys

[00:49:03] of living on a new housing estate okay it is yeah it's just absolute car on each other

[00:49:10] yeah I I took a steel girder when I did the garden at the first house that we bought which is also

[00:49:16] on a new housing estate so I think literally the builders are just bulldozed a lot of his

[00:49:21] shit into the ground and then just laid everything else on top of it because I didn't dig down very

[00:49:25] far and there were just like empty bags of like cement there were bricks there was like this

[00:49:31] huge girder which I needed like four people to help me get it out the ground because

[00:49:35] it was very because how long was this girder it was it was about I don't know

[00:49:40] do you all follow me as long it was in order like oh my god so except the problem is like once

[00:49:45] you've started digging it out you're like oh I'm kidding I'm gonna take the whole thing out

[00:49:50] was it at least flat or was it an angle going downwards you had to keep

[00:49:53] doing it there was angled downwards yeah it was like full on like you're like an archaeology

[00:49:58] dig you know it's happens again like the paintbrushes out and stuff just what is

[00:50:02] commitment I would have just put all the stuff back I would have once I got a few foot down I would

[00:50:07] have gone fuck it I'm putting it back on everything's going back and I'm just gonna tarmac over the top

[00:50:12] of it that's it I mean I could have been like you're creating like some sort of geo thermal energy

[00:50:18] by the time I dug down deep enough to get this bloody thing out what were you even putting

[00:50:22] in the ground we were laying along so like the people that left there before and said

[00:50:27] look if you for about five years and the house straight after it fell they just put like a like

[00:50:32] stone down in the back garden no there's no gardener such a solid spot to own stone

[00:50:38] so I took all the stone out and then dug the garden up so because it was not really

[00:50:42] any like topsoil or anything just clay so we dug it all out so I'll start again

[00:50:46] and that's when I found full the round of crap that involved I was on the island

[00:50:51] it's pretty epic I feel I feel actually even even weaker now after just dealing with some rocks

[00:50:58] I feel that I feel that once like the largest sort of round

[00:51:03] skip that you guys hit like 10 tons I can't remember what they're like the volume

[00:51:06] which you hold I can't remember now I might at least probably have 10 tons of it

[00:51:10] yard it'd be yard one ton or something like that but it's um you know filled an entire

[00:51:16] skip and literally when the lorry came to pick it up so that'd be the don't one look at it and

[00:51:20] it was about to just crane it from the back of the lorry started doing it in the hole the

[00:51:23] from the lorry lifted off the ground so they're not to put like the stabilizers down to let

[00:51:26] the listers down to their back because there is so full of you know the topcon

[00:51:31] concrete

[00:51:37] I'm delighted to be joined by Jordan Vickery from Journey Jordan's a great mate of mine and also

[00:51:44] the man behind the most famous mustache in the accounting and tech world at the moment so

[00:51:49] it's good to have you on buddy and I'm hoping in the next sort of 10-15 minutes we can cover a

[00:51:52] few topics but particularly around you know what people should be doing now that we're in

[00:51:56] right in the middle of event season yeah thanks for having me I mean two great accolades there

[00:52:01] not only one of the greatest mustaches in accounting but to be classed as a

[00:52:04] a mate of the infamous John Toon I mean how did I get so lucky

[00:52:08] well what can I say you know it must be the mustache that does it you know

[00:52:13] the man behind it is almost in a relevance but there we go

[00:52:17] and so like I said Jordan we're a few days out from from Das and clearly like lots of accountants

[00:52:22] lots of vendors will be your planning for what you know what those two days at Das are going to

[00:52:27] look like and things like that but you know maybe you could you know just start out with

[00:52:32] from your side what should a vendor's strategy be all about yeah like

[00:52:38] hopefully they've done the pre-work correctly to start with I mean you know going into an event

[00:52:43] it's really important to know what success looks like because success is going to be different for

[00:52:46] different apps at different stages you know it might be that you're a new rep to the market

[00:52:51] and you're very much looking to see like a measurable ROI from this and you've got a specific

[00:52:55] number of accounting and bookkeeping firms in mind that you want to speak to and

[00:52:59] you know potentially get boarded into the product I know that for some of the more established apps

[00:53:03] events are as much a custom success piece as they are an acquisition piece so their

[00:53:09] kind of success and ROI looks different but the way that we normally think about events is like

[00:53:14] pre, during and post so pre is all about driving demand letting people know who you are

[00:53:19] the problems that you solve making sure that people come and find you if they're interested

[00:53:24] in what you do during the during the day it's all about actually trying to speak to the right people

[00:53:31] not just as many people as possible so you know going into the show with an understanding of what

[00:53:36] is the ideal accounting and bookkeeping firm for our product because they're not all the same

[00:53:40] believe it or not they come in different shapes and sizes they come with different text acts in

[00:53:46] place or not in place and it's important to know what the ideal bookkeeping account

[00:53:51] and bookkeeping firm looks like before and so that when you're speaking to people you can very

[00:53:54] quickly qualify them in or out and say are they good fit or aren't they you know a good fit because

[00:53:59] there's no point in wasting your time or their time if it's not likely to be a good fit.

[00:54:05] And is that easy to do because I mean you know these shows can be a little bit frantic can't

[00:54:09] they so some apps in particular can have queues almost at the stand waiting to talk to people

[00:54:15] and others others will just have you know a drip feed of people coming past as they move

[00:54:20] around at the event space and stuff is that really easy to qualify and also if you do qualify people

[00:54:25] and go actually you're not the customer or the type of business we want to work with how do you

[00:54:29] politely sort of turn them away and or do you just subtly zap their card and then move on is that

[00:54:33] what you do. Yeah there's a few things you can do and there's no like easy way to do it so

[00:54:40] I think it's all that's having a process that you use on the stand so

[00:54:45] something that we've done quite well in the past with some of the apps that we've worked with

[00:54:49] we've created like qualification forms so we'll speak to a prospective person on the stand

[00:54:54] we'll ask them a couple of questions qualifying questions that are relative to you know our

[00:54:57] products and then based on that it will give them one of two outcomes it will either say hey

[00:55:01] based on this criteria you can book a demo in to find out more or if they're unqualified

[00:55:06] instead of letting them book a demo in because you might not want to spend one-on-one sales

[00:55:09] time with them maybe it doesn't make sense. You push them towards like a pre-recorded or a

[00:55:14] self-serve process where there's like a pre-recorded demo self-serve onboarding into the product training

[00:55:21] of resources and support available so kind of depends on the product I guess for some accounting

[00:55:26] and bookkeeping firms that might be a bit frustrating if they're coming to the show and

[00:55:30] they're interested in the product and they want to learn more but then there's a little bit

[00:55:34] of pushback because the guys at the app are like not quite sure they're a good fit but

[00:55:38] I guess it's the same way that any business runs right like an account in a bookkeeping firm

[00:55:42] might not want to waste not waste time but they might not want to spend too much time speaking

[00:55:46] to prospective clients that aren't the best fit for them they are have a slightly different way

[00:55:49] of qualifying them out and it's the same with vendors at the end of the day and it's all about

[00:55:54] you know speaking to the right people and the people that you know you can help the best.

[00:55:59] Yeah and flipping that round to sort of like the accountants and bookkeepers that are going

[00:56:02] to be visiting these shows um you know for some firms there's just going to be one person

[00:56:07] there for others there's going to be a group of people um you know what do they need to

[00:56:11] be thinking about sort of again in the run up to these events but also then on the days or on the

[00:56:16] day or the days that they're attending you know what's the best way to get in the most out of this

[00:56:19] and out you know do you take a sharpie and cross through your barcodes so no one can scan you

[00:56:24] is that the best way of getting through these days? I mean like it's a bit of like a message

[00:56:32] that's been done to death but it's just about going into the event with some kind of plan

[00:56:36] in the first place right are you going there with buying intent are you looking to shop around

[00:56:41] some apps available if so or there's specific parts of you know your workflow that you're looking to

[00:56:46] solve maybe it's APAR anything else in between um are you there from an educational inspiration

[00:56:54] perspective you just want to learn what's happening what's changing you know maybe these

[00:56:58] roles are slightly different depending on who's in the team often we might see that in some of

[00:57:02] the slightly more established firms partners and people in leadership positions are very much

[00:57:06] dared to go and listen to the content and try to tap into what's coming in the next three to five

[00:57:10] years whereas client managers and other people in the team are there because they want to understand

[00:57:14] the tools today they want to speak to the apps and understand what's available and how best to

[00:57:18] implement and use them so really really just comes down to having a bit of a plan and process

[00:57:23] in place before you get to the show kind of coming back to the point I made about

[00:57:26] exhibitors at the beginning it's like knowing what success looks like for you because

[00:57:29] you're taking potentially two three days out the office that you're accumulating a bit of

[00:57:33] cost for travel and accommodation um it's worthwhile going into the event with a bit of a plan outside

[00:57:39] of let's just walk around and bump into who we bump into and party right and party party hard yeah

[00:57:46] and um I mean I think one of the things that you uh you didn't quite mention in your list

[00:57:51] as well I always think for accountants bookkeepers going it's always great to see what other

[00:57:55] technologies out there right to be able to benchmark what you've got so you might not

[00:57:58] be there intending to buy you know the next big OCR payments after whatever it is but

[00:58:03] but you might want to go and go right well I've got this currently in place but if I go to this

[00:58:07] stand and have a look and see what they're doing it might peak my interest because that might be

[00:58:11] something that you might again you might not necessarily want to buy today but maybe in six

[00:58:15] months it is something that you want to get on your radar right exactly like and I know I've

[00:58:21] spoken to like a number of firms especially you know small firms where they're you know

[00:58:26] busy less resource available to invest in just dedicated to finding and implementing new tech

[00:58:32] it's very hard to keep on top of all this stuff year round so like when they come to shows like

[00:58:36] Das or any of the other events that is their time to go around and see what's new in the market

[00:58:41] what's what's you know coming out and understand what's available and it might be that there's

[00:58:46] no real need for them right there and then but in six months time they might reevaluate and say

[00:58:51] hey I you know I saw the app that's six months ago and now I can see a real need for how this is

[00:58:56] going to help me and my clients and from both a visitor and a and a and a vendor point of view

[00:59:05] how much do you think I guess how much do you think vendors should work the room a little bit

[00:59:09] in terms of not just staying on my stand but also getting out about maybe listening to some of the

[00:59:12] talks but also from a visitor point of view do you think it's difficult sometimes to strike

[00:59:17] the right balance between sort of visiting some of the talks and obviously visiting all the

[00:59:20] various times it is like so from I guess to answer the question to pass from the vendors perspective

[00:59:26] yes they should absolutely walk the floor not just walk the floor but make the most of the networking

[00:59:31] elements of the shows as well because it's all about relationships at the end of the day and

[00:59:38] you know I've spoken and made relate made contacts and relationships just based in

[00:59:42] coffee queues so it's important to spend some time you know going around the show

[00:59:47] attending the night show attending any of the socials networking with people that way

[00:59:51] and building relationships off the stand because that can then help conversations on the stand as

[00:59:55] well I do think it's important that vendors try to attend some of the talks because

[01:00:00] it will just help to deepen their understanding of the challenges that accountants are facing

[01:00:05] in practice right now especially you know shows like that we try to make a lot of our content

[01:00:10] driven by accounting a bookkeeping firm sharing their own experiences so you know if you're

[01:00:15] if you're looking to try and understand and have more empathy towards the people you're selling to

[01:00:21] then spending some time to sit and listen to some of these talks can be insanely valuable

[01:00:26] and then in terms of accounts and bookkeepers yes it's difficult I guess to find that balance of

[01:00:31] how much content do I listen to versus how much time do I spend on stand and maybe that just

[01:00:36] comes down to again having a bit of a plan like go through the agenda pick out the top sessions

[01:00:41] that you think are going to be most impactful and helpful for you right now make sure you've

[01:00:44] got those locked in and then outside of that any other time that you have use it wisely to kind of

[01:00:49] work the room go around the floor and speak to the vendors that you think would be most interesting

[01:00:54] yeah and I think I think actually just working there working the room working the floor is

[01:00:58] sometimes the most challenging thing isn't it because I mean you can let you say you can

[01:01:02] sometimes get stuck on a stand for quite a long time just with a demo or just talking to somebody

[01:01:06] but equally as you're working here as you go around the room and having those conversations

[01:01:09] with other people that you've been to that you maybe know it's incredible how quickly

[01:01:13] that time gets sucked up doesn't it and the back race you're really quickly so I think being

[01:01:17] quite diligent is really important isn't it? It is yeah it is like you've almost got to be not

[01:01:23] ruthless because at the end of the day you still just want to have fun and enjoy it and and you

[01:01:27] know have those kind of side conversations because often you know they're some of the most

[01:01:32] powerful conversations you have at events like this but you still need a bit of a plan and to

[01:01:36] say yeah I need to do these things to make the most of my time here today. Yeah and I think

[01:01:41] having a bit of a plan to escape as well sometimes is quite useful you know because again all of these

[01:01:45] shows tend to be quite big scale you know they can be quite overwhelming particularly when the rooms

[01:01:49] are packed and they're speaking areas are packed and stuff you know just being able to

[01:01:54] you know whether it's at Das and you can jump outside and hopefully get into the sunshine

[01:01:57] at Battersea or you know a context always you can walk around the excel a little bit and

[01:02:02] you know just get away from the hub it's quite nice just to be able to sort of spend 10-15

[01:02:06] minutes sort of decompressing from the madness isn't it? Yeah I always feel like I need to lie

[01:02:10] down in the dark room after any of these events like my social batteries are just so drained I just

[01:02:14] need to lock myself away and not talk to anyone for a week. Yeah fair enough fair enough and then

[01:02:20] I guess moving on to like post-post event work you know you know from a vendor perspective you know

[01:02:26] I've been slightly sneaky silly and so I was saying you know you'll have zapped as many people

[01:02:30] as possible and obviously you've done you'll have done some of that work that you kind of

[01:02:33] talked about in terms of trying to qualify leads and various things but but I guess you know

[01:02:38] those first few days and weeks after a show then are like super important that in terms of that

[01:02:43] follow-up and the opportunity and again I guess as you mentioned before it's probably a little bit

[01:02:47] different for the more established vendors than maybe some of the newer vendors in the market

[01:02:52] because your process might look somewhat different. Yeah I mean you've got to follow up quick

[01:02:58] there's no point in sitting and waiting for weeks I know from like the accounts in a bookkeeping

[01:03:03] perspective they're like oh we're going to get smashed with emails and calls after the event

[01:03:07] no I do understand that but I think that comes down to vendors having like vendors being a bit more

[01:03:14] controlled about the leads they do collect and how they then communicate with them so it's not just

[01:03:18] the case of scanning every single batch because the reality is that they're not going to be that

[01:03:22] qualified there might not be any buying intent there so if you start smashing them with emails

[01:03:26] and calls they're going to get pissed off and not want to you know speak to you but if you're

[01:03:30] a bit more strategic with your approach and you're qualifying people understand maybe you're

[01:03:36] doing demos understand maybe you're booking demos understand it's likely that the quality

[01:03:40] conversation and the intent of the people you're speaking to is going to be much better so when you

[01:03:44] do follow up follow up yeah you know they might get a bit frustrated that there's a few calls and

[01:03:49] emails coming in ultimately you know they're probably going to be more receptive to to being

[01:03:54] you know you contact them and I think it's important as well to try and segment out what

[01:03:59] your follow-up looks like in advance so don't just try and push everyone into a demo don't

[01:04:04] just try and push everyone into a trial just give people options you know some people like to

[01:04:08] explore products by themselves other people like to be handheld through a demo some people like a mix

[01:04:13] of both so you know provide a number of options and think about this is like a campaign that's

[01:04:19] going to run over a you know period of months yes you have to start right away but you're not

[01:04:24] going to get everyone signed up as a customer within two weeks um you know so plan it out

[01:04:29] you know think about all their product master classes that we can run in a couple of weeks

[01:04:33] time so if people want to learn more about the product but they're not ready to commit to a

[01:04:36] one-on-one demo they can come to this webinar it's less kind of one-on-one it's a bit more

[01:04:40] hands off gives them more time to explore and think about it just things like that can be

[01:04:45] you know really really helpful I think some of the things I've experienced when talking to

[01:04:49] to vendors are the ones that I've known or new ones to me as well is that you can qualify

[01:04:53] some of that out on the stand anyway in the conversation can't you because I know some

[01:04:56] people will say well you know for follow-up next week is that work and you know if you're

[01:05:00] busy you can sort of say like next week's never going to work like let's do it the week after or

[01:05:03] something and get that in and I'm very much a person that likes to explore our products on my own

[01:05:08] unless it's completely you know overwhelming or new or complex um and so I guess from from that

[01:05:14] point of view from a sales point of view I'm relatively like low maintenance until I

[01:05:18] sort of start asking the difficult questions of course um low maintenance but then some

[01:05:25] it's quite funny in marketing the sales team sometimes because they create these arbitrary

[01:05:29] like stages and buckets that they put people into and I've seen it before in organizations where

[01:05:35] they they mandate that a salesperson has to have a call with a prospect in order to qualify them

[01:05:40] but that completely neglects the fact that some prospects just want to self-serve and

[01:05:43] onboard into the product themselves so it's like you're you're now just badgering this person

[01:05:47] to try and put them in for a call when they've already explicitly told you that they want

[01:05:50] to find their own way through the product like you're actually you know you do more harm

[01:05:54] than good at this point yeah I'm to be fair I'm very much one of those people like I'm quite

[01:05:58] happy to explore a product then make my own mind up about it and if I've got questions I'll reach out

[01:06:03] so I guess I guess like maybe like one one you know phone call or email just to sort of check in

[01:06:08] is always welcome but more than that is is generally particularly welcome what should

[01:06:13] accountants be thinking about you know again post event I mean obviously we're going to have

[01:06:18] vendors you're getting in it getting us into some kind of campaign if we visit the stand

[01:06:22] and we've been scammed and you know express some kind of interest in the product whether it's

[01:06:27] for a sales follow-up whether it's for support follow-up whatever it might be

[01:06:31] you know I guess accountants have to have to acknowledge that that's going to happen

[01:06:38] how do we best manage expectations so that it doesn't become painful on both sides

[01:06:44] I think transparency is important so you know if a vendor's contacting you and they will

[01:06:49] you know that they will call an email just be realistic about where you're at with it you know

[01:06:54] if it's a case of you're interested but it's not going to be something you can look up for the next

[01:06:59] three to six months just tell them that if you keep ignoring them putting them off then they're

[01:07:04] they're not really sure what the outcome is so that they're likely to still chase

[01:07:08] whereas if you say look like we've got a couple of things going on internally this is

[01:07:11] a priority for us in three months time can we connect again then hopefully they take that

[01:07:16] as a point so yeah no worries we'll put it to a sign and contact you then

[01:07:20] and I think it also comes down to just prioritizing and thinking what's going to be most important

[01:07:25] right now because something we always say is that buying tech is really easy but implementing

[01:07:31] it is the hard part and it's really easy to sign up and you know get excited about these

[01:07:36] things but they're actually taking it back to the firm figuring out how to implement it and

[01:07:40] all of the work that often goes into implementing new tools can be hugely time consuming

[01:07:45] so it's important that you know if you are looking and exploring at these products that you do

[01:07:50] have an idea going into it about what that kind of implementation process needs to look like

[01:07:55] and also ask the vendors how they can help you with that because there's some fantastic

[01:07:59] customer success teams out there I know that a number of the products have you know really great

[01:08:04] onboarding support where they'll help you to migrate data and set data up in new products

[01:08:08] and often they don't do a good enough job about shouting about that so go and ask those

[01:08:12] questions ask them what onboarding support is available how they can help you and your team

[01:08:17] get set up and then hopefully that gives you a bit more idea about yeah how to get going with it all

[01:08:23] and I think also another important point to make is that you know and I certainly experienced this

[01:08:27] in the early days is that a vendor might talk to someone like myself but I am absolutely no buying

[01:08:32] power no influence you know I'm literally just the monkey that's been sent to the event

[01:08:37] because I've shown an interest and then the follow-up is really challenging because

[01:08:42] you know you could show me you can show me the most amazing app in the world but if I can't convince

[01:08:47] the managers the partners whoever it is to then make that buying decision that's really challenging so

[01:08:52] I guess from a vendor perspective as well you've got to be really clear on that sort of post event

[01:08:57] sales follow-up that who are you speaking to are the decision maker who else needs to be

[01:09:01] brought into the room if it goes to multiple people for example and what that process looks

[01:09:06] like and I know again I think from an accountant point of view is to get your ego out of the way

[01:09:10] sometimes does sort of admit to the fact that you don't have a buying decision

[01:09:14] role or that maybe you partly influence it but nothing else and yeah I think that is quite

[01:09:20] challenging to navigate post event. It is and I think from the vendor side that just comes down

[01:09:27] to them segmenting their data better so you know large firms are inherently a much different

[01:09:33] beast to try and sell to than smaller firms for the reasons you mentioned right like you

[01:09:37] you're going to have people in in cloud champion roles or whatever it might be called

[01:09:41] who are out there exploring and looking at new tech but ultimately they then have to

[01:09:44] build the business case for the rest of the firm and the partners and that can take months

[01:09:49] so if you're just badgering this person on the phone week after week saying are you going to

[01:09:52] sign up yet are you going to sign up yet realities you're going to piss them off

[01:09:55] pretty quickly so think about how you can support those people you know they're

[01:09:59] going to need a slightly different nurture and relationship ongoing than a smaller firm like

[01:10:06] yeah yeah absolutely and I just want to move on to sort of the final the final thing I mean

[01:10:11] as I said we're kind of like right in the middle of event season at the moment it's

[01:10:15] it's just quite a compact number of events in a very short short amount of time

[01:10:20] you know at the moment so you know what challenges does that present you for both

[01:10:26] visitors and for vendors I mean obviously from a vendor point of view it's really

[01:10:30] difficult to work out where to spend your money and whether you go to all the events

[01:10:33] or cherry pick which ones you go to because there's a cost of doing all of these things

[01:10:38] but also how do you make them work because all of the events are slightly different you know you've

[01:10:42] got your festival of accounting bookkeeping that happened a few weeks ago up in Birmingham

[01:10:47] obviously got your DAS account tax coming up soon then zero con which again is a very different

[01:10:52] sort of beast in itself right like how do you navigate that sort of mine field and

[01:10:58] you know should you attend all or should you just cherry pick and how do you make those

[01:11:01] decisions from a vendors perspective or an accountant I think from a vendor let's go with

[01:11:06] the vendor perspective first then maybe we can think about accountants and whether it's worth

[01:11:10] traveling traipsing around the country all the time doing the same thing over and over

[01:11:14] okay and so from the vendors perspective like it it kind of comes back to what I said

[01:11:20] initially around like what does success look like and what kind of ROI do you need to get from

[01:11:24] these things um you will find that although the events are quite compact and there is some

[01:11:30] overlap there's also a lot of uniqueness with regards to who's attending them because it's very

[01:11:34] unlikely that a large enough cohort of firms will attend all four or five events however many there

[01:11:41] are that it means that you're kind of only speaking to the same people event after event

[01:11:46] it's highly likely that you'll be speaking to the majority like unique people at each show

[01:11:52] so if you are in this process of trying to figure out which events you should go to as

[01:11:56] opposed to just saying I think we can commit to most of them it just comes down to understanding

[01:12:00] who your audience is you know trying to understand what is the ideal accountant or bookkeeper firm

[01:12:04] for your product and then speaking to the event organizers and asking them for like media guides

[01:12:10] and breakdown of their audience to try and understand who is going to be attending that show

[01:12:14] and are they the best fit um you know certain events will bring in an audience of slightly

[01:12:20] smaller practitioners or maybe a bit more of a bookkeeping um focus as opposed to other events

[01:12:26] where they'll bring in a much uh like an audience from top 100 terms for example um

[01:12:32] you might have a product that sells to both you might have a product that only sells to one

[01:12:35] or the other so kind of depending on that you've got to choose the choose the events accordingly

[01:12:39] and just figure out if you can make it work from an ROI perspective yeah and I guess if you're

[01:12:44] sort of already a semi-established or at least got some customers in that in that sort of

[01:12:49] accounting bookkeeping market so it's just asking them isn't it you know what what events

[01:12:52] are you planning on attending which ones stand out get their opinions on those I know sometimes

[01:12:57] I'm get I get asked those questions um you know as as much as there are lots of events on top of

[01:13:03] each other this year they are very distinct in my mind so yeah they are distinct they are

[01:13:08] distinct and you'll get like I think from both the vendor and accounting perspective you'll get

[01:13:13] different things from each of the events um and you asked the question like how does an

[01:13:19] accountant bookkeeper choose which event to go to I think it's just the same thing really it's

[01:13:23] about understanding what you want to get out from it and which one's going to make the most sense

[01:13:27] for you and your team um are you are you a new zero firm to the ecosystem and you know just

[01:13:34] bought into this whole zero bubble and is zero economy the thing that gets you and your

[01:13:38] team all excited and bought into the the future you know future vision of the firm or

[01:13:42] are you a slightly more established firm you've been in this zero world for a while and you're just

[01:13:46] looking at like that the future of what's next and what else can we do beyond I guess call it the

[01:13:51] you know the basic kind of cloud accounting piece if you've never attended any of these

[01:13:56] events so I guess that's quite difficult to figure out maybe from the outside looking in sometimes

[01:14:00] isn't it you know um you've got uh you've got the sort of the the the different styles and

[01:14:08] marketing dynamics of each of these events and I guess zero con is the zero con or quick book

[01:14:15] to connect to probably the ones where like you say it makes it really easy because if you know that

[01:14:18] you're already aligned with that product you kind of probably should focus in on that but then

[01:14:22] you know you digital account show has a very different sort of aspects and angle to to say

[01:14:27] account text um you know and that same with like the festival accounting bookkeeping I think the

[01:14:32] angle they they pursued with the real focus on bookkeeping changed the audience dynamic quite a

[01:14:36] lot there so yeah um yeah I think sometimes it is challenging on the outside looking in but again

[01:14:41] this is where maybe having a network of people around you or just reaching out and putting

[01:14:45] that question out on LinkedIn will get you some answers on it. There's so many amazing

[01:14:50] Facebook groups and communities of accountants out there that you can ask as well um and

[01:14:54] I'm sure within there there's going to be lots that have been to these events previously and

[01:14:58] either enjoyed them or not as not enjoyed them as much as others and they'll be quite happy

[01:15:02] to share what they think and then they often do so yeah like you say ask the questions if you're

[01:15:06] not sure. Yeah absolutely okay well that Jordan I think your insights on what's what's going on

[01:15:12] with events at the moment are always really valuable um I guess it would be remiss of me not

[01:15:17] to allow you to do a quick shout out about journey and you know how you guys uh you can

[01:15:20] help vendors you know navigate this this market particularly here in the UK but also overseas

[01:15:25] and um you know help with this whole you uh you know space in terms of your marketing identifying

[01:15:33] product market fit getting those customer success things right and everything else so go for it.

[01:15:38] Thanks mate well journey which is on my t-shirt hip um we're a growth marketing agency that

[01:15:44] exclusively work with companies in the accounting tech space so that's any software company that

[01:15:50] selling directly to an accounting firm or looking to a partner with an accounting firm

[01:15:56] for them to use the product with their clients um typically what we offer is outsource growth and

[01:16:01] marketing so that can be anything from helping a new tech company through that kind of product

[01:16:07] market fit stage helping them to test and validate messaging and test and validate

[01:16:10] that the product's going to be a good fit at all all the way through to actually helping

[01:16:13] them to launch and grow the products in their channel so um the people in the team have

[01:16:18] all got like at least 10 plus years experience each of being in marketing growth sales success roles

[01:16:23] in accounting and what it means is that we've got a really good understanding of what works and what

[01:16:27] doesn't work in this channel because we see it time and time again vendors will come in and try to

[01:16:32] apply a standard B2B marketing playbook to accountants and it fails miserably because they don't

[01:16:37] have any empathy towards accounts and bookkeepers and what they do and who they are um and they're

[01:16:41] completely kind of deaf to it and because of that a lot of what they do and say just falls flat

[01:16:47] so the kind of real benefits of working with Journey is a you get to leverage proven playbooks

[01:16:53] and things that we tried and tested over the years b you get instant access to like an extensive

[01:16:58] network of contacts people like John that we've uh we've built relationships with over the years

[01:17:04] you know and have trust in and can lean on to certain things and b it's just a real shortcut

[01:17:10] see even it's a real shortcut to success because instead of spending the next 12 to 18 months

[01:17:16] trying to figure out how to see success in this channel you can often see it a lot quicker because

[01:17:21] we we can kind of accelerate what will work and what won't work for you. Well thanks for that mate

[01:17:27] and Trent will be very proud of that little uh uh you know little spiel so he has me practicing

[01:17:33] it every day he says every morning when I wake up I have to recite it three times in the mirror

[01:17:38] it's like it's like the allegiance to the US flag is that what it is it's the same kind of thing

[01:17:44] okay I mean that doesn't surprise me coming from Trent. Yeah I've got um he makes us all get branded

[01:17:50] with the journey the journey mark on our back. Is that right yeah you have me on the side of your

[01:17:54] neck. Yeah amazing cheers thanks for that buddy. All right cheers.

[01:18:03] Okay so there we go that wraps up another episode of the digital and accrual podcast

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