Why (Some) Firms are Implementing New Services Badly… Kayleigh Graham

[00:00:00] Evaluation of apps is not done as efficiently as it should be. Are you actually thinking about the functionality that you need or are you going, this person was my account manager at zero ten years ago so we'll use that piece of software. And I think unfortunately we have a lot of people guilty of the latter.

[00:00:14] I just take the bath, fill it at night, then I just leave it with the window open and then go into the bath in the morning for ten minutes. But I have several people that tell me I'm not allowed to justify it as having a cold shower. What do you think?

[00:00:32] This is the first time that both John and I look completely speechless.

[00:00:39] EU have started with their formal regulation of AI.

[00:00:45] Adfin is targeting payments as the pain point.

[00:00:49] NetSuite have released Suite Projects Pro.

[00:00:52] HMRC will soon launch consultation on electronic invoicing.

[00:00:56] They also announce a new digital transformation roadmap.

[00:00:58] A whole bunch of ex-Revolute staff have inevitably, as it seems, started up a new business. Perhaps unsurprisingly this is another accounting AI product.

[00:01:07] They have raised thirteen and a half million dollars in the Series A round.

[00:01:11] I've got a few things from Sage.

[00:01:13] CCH have launched iFirm Validate which is focused entirely on auditors.

[00:01:19] Kayleigh, you mentioned if accountants wanted to look into the services that they offer, there's some things they should consider.

[00:01:26] The first piece is what is it that you're trying to achieve as a firm. If you are focused on compliance and you just want thousands of compliance clients, there is no point stepping into this space.

[00:01:35] Then it breaks down to me into three key sectors.

[00:01:38] People, platform and process. These are things that people just don't think about.

[00:01:42] I go, does your insurer know that?

[00:01:43] And they go, oh no.

[00:01:45] That barrier to entry has been marketed and made to seem so low.

[00:01:49] And quite often I'm saying to people, just stop for a second.

[00:01:52] What is the process here?

[00:01:53] How are you going to charge for this?

[00:01:54] If you're recharging software, have you got that set up?

[00:01:56] Do you know that Tellaroo is VAT exempt because it's banking services?

[00:02:00] What did you think Kayleigh of Ryan's recent post talking about influencers in this place?

[00:02:07] If we are talking about female influencers posting with a bit of cleavage out, fine.

[00:02:14] Maybe it does draw in ten guys that are creepy guys that come and like it, right?

[00:02:18] At what point do we start saying that the reason why ten partners at an accountancy firm entertain a conversation with me is because I'm 26 and relatively attractive?

[00:02:28] Or is it based on what I'm saying and the content that's going out around that?

[00:02:31] So I think that there becomes a part where it can become damaging and potentially a challenge.

[00:02:36] Forget the rubbish around the outside, forget AML, forget other things.

[00:02:39] There are better products out there for people to move to.

[00:02:41] And given that everything's moving to the cloud and we're going to have working in a world of open APIs,

[00:02:46] is that people are going to want to move to the best of breed.

[00:02:50] It's the amazing Ryan Pearce!

[00:02:55] It's a whole new level of insanity is maybe what I'd go with for this.

[00:03:01] Hello and welcome to the DigiTools in a Cruel World podcast brought to you by the Digital Disruptor Group.

[00:03:06] A place to go for all your app news, insights and a bit of banter about what's going on in the tech world of the UK.

[00:03:15] And I guess nowadays the world.

[00:03:18] I'm joined by the ever-present John Toon and Indy Tatler.

[00:03:22] John, how is life, mate?

[00:03:24] Yeah, I'm good. Thank you very much.

[00:03:27] Come off the back of a reasonably chilled weekend, apart from the fact that I went for a run on Saturday morning,

[00:03:32] which definitely was a step too far as far as I'm concerned.

[00:03:36] I mean, I hate running. So just getting out and putting trainers on is a miserable experience for me.

[00:03:41] And it makes me feel like I've been smoking 40 a day because my lungs just hate me.

[00:03:45] But yeah, anyway, it's good to get a bit of exercise, I guess.

[00:03:48] And I've got more suitable plans for next weekend, which is a walk in the Peak District and a walk in the Lake District over two days.

[00:03:56] So that'll keep me traveling around for a little bit.

[00:03:59] Yeah, you do love your walking. I think I tend to run more than you.

[00:04:03] But I mean, we're nothing if like compared to Jack Teal, a fellow podcaster over in Australia, which is depressing when we see how far and fast he can run.

[00:04:12] Yeah, it's obscene.

[00:04:14] It is where we do to keep fit. And Indy, have you been keeping fit as well?

[00:04:18] You know, I have really enjoyed my walking treadmill under desk experience.

[00:04:24] So it has been at least adding a few more steps to my day.

[00:04:30] And I've actually been a little bit more conscious of how little I move.

[00:04:35] The sedentary lifestyle is coming for us all.

[00:04:38] It is really painful. Otherwise, if you don't find yourself getting out there.

[00:04:42] So I haven't actually just invested in trying to walk.

[00:04:45] I'm now trying to justify to myself because I have a real issue with my shower that I can't change the temperature down on it.

[00:04:53] Right. And so stay with me on this.

[00:04:56] I'm still trying to convince myself that this is something that's good for me, but I'm not actually sure that I can justify it.

[00:05:02] So instead, I because I can't change the temperature on the shower.

[00:05:07] I tried a few other things first.

[00:05:09] So I thought, right, what I'll do is I'll just try and hang around under the bath tap cold and just get a cold splash on myself.

[00:05:17] That was a bit awkward because I realized that, you know, I couldn't quite get the coverage.

[00:05:22] So instead, I just take the bath, fill it at night, have a nice bath in the evening.

[00:05:27] And then I just leave it with the window open overnight and then go into the bath in the morning for 10 minutes.

[00:05:36] I think it may count towards maybe like a cold ish shower.

[00:05:42] But I have several people that tell me that it's just not the same and I'm not allowed to justify it as even having a cold shower.

[00:05:51] What do you think?

[00:05:53] Oh, I've got this is the first time that both John and I look completely speechless.

[00:06:03] It's a whole new level of insanity is maybe what I'd go with for this.

[00:06:09] So are you saying you've moved on from rubbing things into your body that you're now just having ambient baths?

[00:06:15] Is that what I'm saying?

[00:06:17] You're calling it ambient as if it's not cold.

[00:06:19] It is quite chilly though.

[00:06:22] What indoors?

[00:06:24] If it was outside in winter, in like a metal tub.

[00:06:29] I do my best here to try and encourage some sort of like, some sort of homeopathic good way of resetting my system.

[00:06:40] You were saying to me that it doesn't work.

[00:06:42] I mean, well, nothing works when it's homeopathic because it's not it's not genuine.

[00:06:46] It's just made up.

[00:06:47] I mean, it's like a Ponzi scheme for health.

[00:06:49] So you might as well just do whatever you like.

[00:06:51] John, I'm not in the business of defending people that I actually think deliver good value to other people.

[00:06:57] No, they don't.

[00:06:58] No, they don't.

[00:06:58] Homeopaths are charlatans and rip off merchants.

[00:07:01] Move on.

[00:07:01] Move on.

[00:07:03] If you want, if you want, if you want to have it, you should have a cold shower though.

[00:07:07] It's good for you because like when you should, you should have a normal shower, like switch the temperature down to cold for 30 seconds.

[00:07:14] Really good because it helps manage your stress and everything else.

[00:07:17] But it's stuck, John.

[00:07:18] So the only way that I can do that is to go and get it bloody fixed.

[00:07:22] That's true.

[00:07:25] I reckon, I reckon it'd be cheaper to get it fixed over the longer term than filling your bath up, leaving it overnight with the window open.

[00:07:32] So all the heat from your bathroom goes out of the window and all the excess water that you've used just to get it to an ambient temperature, which doesn't have the same impact in the first place.

[00:07:41] I see what you're saying.

[00:07:42] I've increased my carbon footprint.

[00:07:43] But if you've heard it here first, India's increased her carbon footprint.

[00:07:47] You could probably, you could probably rub magnesium on that.

[00:07:50] It'd be all right.

[00:07:51] Put on a carbon footprint.

[00:07:52] Yeah.

[00:07:54] On that note, let's crack on with the show.

[00:08:01] Okay.

[00:08:02] So I've got a little bit of news from the, from the EU of all places.

[00:08:07] They have started with the formal regulation of AI.

[00:08:13] Now, I think this is a topic that we did talk about a little while ago because this is, this is a bit of legislation that's been rumbling around in the works and there's ever with things in the EU.

[00:08:22] It does take a little bit of a little while to sort of get implemented because we've got to go through the councils and then get the individual countries to implement some of these changes.

[00:08:29] but the artificial intelligence act has officially gone live as it were and the reality is is that

[00:08:36] as a consequence of being one of the first places in the world to sort of regulate um ai it's going

[00:08:41] to have an impact around the globe whether we like it or not because um you know whether it's

[00:08:45] people like open ai or whether it's google or whoever else is in the game uh they're going to

[00:08:50] have to comply with this and the likelihood is like we've seen with things like regulation

[00:08:54] around cookies on websites you know that was an eu thing that then started you know effectively

[00:08:58] across the world um so it is going to have a pan global uh implications and i guess the the sort

[00:09:06] of key things around uh the implementationist act is that um there are a whole bunch of uh

[00:09:12] um sort of pillars if you like that have been brought into this to ensure that um things like

[00:09:19] personal data our personal images uh things like profiling of you as an individual is all done in

[00:09:25] a way that's uh managed it's acceptable and doesn't bring in bias so i guess the classic example is

[00:09:31] that people but police forces around the world have been using things like um uh imagery data which has

[00:09:37] been found to uh your bias against uh people of color and that's a really big challenge and so

[00:09:44] this new act will start to uh remove that risk now it's not all going to happen overnight uh there is a

[00:09:50] 24 to 36 months rollout effective from the 1st of august so we've got a wee while to go yet before

[00:09:55] uh we actually see the full impact of this uh and that's partly due to uh allowing the ai companies to

[00:10:01] the time the space to check to adapt to these regulations but also uh to have a phased approach

[00:10:06] so that it's not just sort of like a complete shutdown of the market because clearly it's a

[00:10:09] significant part of um of what's happening in our space um and i guess that probably the biggest

[00:10:15] impact for uh businesses like ourselves is that we're going to have to start disclosing our use

[00:10:19] of ai uh to our clients to our customers um and really have some clear um views around you know what

[00:10:27] the impact what the risks are etc and that will be tied in i guess to some of the gdpr implications

[00:10:31] that we're already familiar with this is a really good time for different countries to review and in

[00:10:39] generally take a stance on this i commented on a piece this morning that was really towards ai in

[00:10:46] in the positive sense that you could produce content at scale video content just by uploading a video of

[00:10:52] yourself and then trans and you could then effectively write a script that the avatar ai version

[00:10:59] of you would then be able to speak and say um really great at hacking your content out but the

[00:11:08] potential risks to do with id uh and security breaches on on like using someone's identity

[00:11:15] and for checking i just thought wow this is insane and you have no understanding even as a consumer

[00:11:23] really what you're signing up for when you're signing on the dotted line to say in the terms and

[00:11:28] conditions that you use these services so it's about time that you know more we do take some level

[00:11:35] ownership of that as as a country and so it'd be really great to see that happening

[00:11:41] um i have got something different which is much more in the um accounting tech space adfin which is

[00:11:51] a new app that's recently launched in the uk is targeting payments as um the pain point and it

[00:11:59] offers sale trade assault traders and small businesses an integrated platform to bring your invoices together

[00:12:06] um by email or whatsapp or different um payment different methods and so for your your software's

[00:12:15] like it can also do it from your quickbooks or your zero um and then it acts as a central repository

[00:12:23] for all invoices and payments so it makes it easy for the invoices to come in from a variety of sources

[00:12:30] and then have a variety of different ways to get paid so you can do open banking via direct debit

[00:12:36] and you can do um payments on the invoice via stripe and go cardless i believe um or actually make card

[00:12:46] payments including apple pay and google pay so um i think that the great thing about this is that

[00:12:53] everything's sort of done in one place uh and obviously the cost mechanics are a little bit better

[00:12:58] because they're trying to take the sting out of what has been a 1.5 percent charge mechanism on

[00:13:05] payments um really interesting to see how that will work because it seems to be not just the

[00:13:12] aggregation of the different receivables uh from multiple sources so it's great for sole traders

[00:13:17] but it's also linking to the fact that it will give you chasing reminders to the clients as well

[00:13:22] so if the you know a payment hasn't been made the system will automatically chase that up as well

[00:13:27] um i think we've seen a lot of these different technologies coming out in the recent years and

[00:13:33] whether they have been in terms of just the chasing or the data layer that gives you some

[00:13:39] monitoring and understanding of that how do we think this one will fare um obviously the founder of

[00:13:47] this has um set it up and he was ex tink so um probably has a very ambitious ambitious view of

[00:13:55] what open banking and payments can add to small businesses and the mechanism is through the receivable

[00:14:01] what do you think guys i mean i i've had a quick look at adfin as a platform and i was uh genuinely

[00:14:07] impressed i mean to see kind of all of those payment solutions together in one place is is

[00:14:11] reasonably unique and as you said uh the cost mechanics i was interested in that phrase indeed

[00:14:16] but like the cost mechanics are such that they're basically they're trying to undercut everyone

[00:14:19] which is the typical kind of uh race to the bottom that we see with with you know uh all of these

[00:14:25] things effectively in banking is it is uh it's around you know the minute minimum cost is what people

[00:14:30] what team to attract people um i think uh whilst they've got integrations into the likes of zero

[00:14:37] quickbooks i know that they're also looking at other integrations and where uh they've got a reasonably

[00:14:42] decent api as well so we're actually looking at potentially building um building their product

[00:14:46] into our practice management solution for for taking payments which should be uh really exciting for us

[00:14:51] and a great development and give us some good choices in terms of allowing customers to to have

[00:14:57] different ways of paying us um so yeah i think i think they've got great opportunity i guess the

[00:15:04] challenge for them is that if they're bigger larger more established competitors sort of turn this on

[00:15:09] and really turn the screw on on payments in terms of pricing which we have seen in the past has

[00:15:14] happened um then then it might it might make their lives a little bit more challenging in terms of

[00:15:18] being able to sustain uh growth of the product because it's a volume business this and it's all about

[00:15:23] you know if you get the volume through then you'll you'll survive but if you don't get the volume

[00:15:27] through and you've got very tight margins you're going to be really struggling yeah i like their

[00:15:32] take on it i like their approach i think nook had a similar vision early on and then pivoted into

[00:15:36] payments rather than just uh you know their supply payments rather than um what advin have now gone

[00:15:42] down but yeah as john said it's all about speed and getting that into the market before their

[00:15:47] competitors take it over so yeah we watch this space really well we've talked about those going for

[00:15:53] sold traders let's go to enterprise uh so i've got something from netsuite they have released netsuite

[00:15:59] uh suite projects pro which essentially builds on their netsuite suite projects project or area of the

[00:16:09] of the business um and uh releases a lot of new functionality as you'd expect with ai built in

[00:16:15] so they've got as part of this ai powered project risk analysis so if you're starting a new project

[00:16:22] and you need to establish what the risks associate with this you can use some ai to look at what the

[00:16:26] metrics are you've brought in to come up with a risk assessment um you've got ai powered staffing

[00:16:32] recommendations which you're starting to see in a lot of these resourcing and planning apps

[00:16:36] and you know once you build out skill sets you'll look at availability and start putting forward

[00:16:41] which staff members or users should be most applicable to join these projects which i guess

[00:16:48] reduces a role a human role to some extent because the tech is taking over this element it's got improved

[00:16:54] project viability how likely are we going to make money or make this um deliver in the time frame it

[00:17:00] needs to um and that aligns with reporting profitability and then it's got something called

[00:17:05] enhanced user experience with oracle redwood i've not come across oracle redwood before but it looks

[00:17:10] like it's all about um defining actionable tasks and building into research and kpis so i think it's an

[00:17:18] overlaying architecture that goes alongside net suite if anyone has um used oracle redwood please do reach

[00:17:25] out to us because i'd like to learn a little bit more about how that works but essentially anyone that is in

[00:17:31] net suite open air uh being automatically transitioned to this new experience from uh suite projects uh so

[00:17:37] yeah if you're a net suite user this looks like something that will benefit you something a little

[00:17:43] bit different from us on this one it's chancellor reeds has outlined a package for reforms to improve

[00:17:48] the uk's tax system um and as part of that package hmrc will soon launch consultation on electronic invoicing

[00:17:55] um to promote its wider use across uk businesses and government departments they also announced that a new

[00:18:03] digital transformation roadmap um aim to be published in spring 2025 will set out the hmrc's vision to become

[00:18:11] a digital first organization underpinned by customer insight um it will include some things around like digital

[00:18:18] inclusion support for customers who can't yet interact digitally and there's also um some announcements made

[00:18:25] around um new soft that are expected to join hmrc's training program in november uh 200 additional offer

[00:18:33] letters have been issued as part of 450 letters already sent so a lot more uh employees that will be

[00:18:40] recruited for the compliance side of closing that tax gap so a little bit of news on that yeah i like

[00:18:47] the fact that e-invoicing is taking a precedent with the new government i mean we talked about this

[00:18:51] uh on the pod before and we were frustrated this is something that was ignored by the last government

[00:18:56] let's just see if it takes as long with as many delays to for e-invoicing roll out as it has from

[00:19:02] making tax digital and i'm i'm more confident about this one well i think we've to do the thing that

[00:19:09] we talked about with e-invoicing right is the fact that it's going to come in no matter whether the

[00:19:12] government gets involved or not because of the consequences of um the fact that europe european

[00:19:18] union have mandated it and other countries are starting to mandate it more and more so uh there's a

[00:19:22] certain inevitability about this but it is really good to see that uk government has started to engage

[00:19:26] on this and obviously it can be formed part of like the wider strategies around business and and

[00:19:31] you're increasing digitization because uh it'll be good for many reasons not just um not just for

[00:19:37] business but for hmrc and to minimize fraud etc so uh uh yeah good to see i uh have something else from

[00:19:43] a whole bunch of ex uh revolute staff who have uh inevitably as it seems with a lot of ex-revoluters

[00:19:49] uh started up a new business uh and perhaps unsurprisingly this is another accounting ai product

[00:19:57] um so this product called live flow um is uh basically uh you know out there trying to help

[00:20:05] accounting firms become more and more efficient um they have raised 13 and a half million dollars in

[00:20:11] a series a round that was led by velar ventures uh which is a vc firm co-founded by peter teal

[00:20:17] and um they are hoping to essentially uh aggregate data from accounting services from banks from

[00:20:24] payment platforms and things to then allow you to create custom reports automate workflows and

[00:20:28] consolidate company accounts so i guess this is maybe like um it's sort of like a bit of a hybrid

[00:20:34] of maybe like you know zero if you like or quickbooks and then um you know the the kind of stuff that we

[00:20:41] can see through through some of the existing banking platforms but i guess it's kind of pulling in bank

[00:20:45] feeds and then it's kind of doing what maybe a2x or dex commerce do with the payment platforms and then

[00:20:50] bringing this all together uh but but giving you like a wider set of reports and stuff um again i

[00:20:57] mean for me this is this is a problem you know that has elements that still need to be solved but

[00:21:03] there are also so much that you can do with this and i wonder again if this is kind of a fairly unique

[00:21:08] us problem because there are so many problems still in the us around bank feeds for example around

[00:21:13] aggregating data from um from stripe and the many e-commerce platforms and stuff um which i don't

[00:21:18] think is necessarily the same kind of problems that we we experience in the uk for sure um yes there

[00:21:25] are problems there are problems around vat and um you know reporting and things like that but but i

[00:21:29] don't think in terms of aggregating data and bringing it all together in one place we perhaps

[00:21:33] have the same problems that these guys are looking to resolve so i wonder if this will be a product that we

[00:21:38] will only see in the us and then won't really branch out but i guess it's very early days for them we've

[00:21:43] got to uh got to see what they're uh what they're likely to be doing and they do uh for example uh

[00:21:49] have bdo and klr which is one of the big top 10 or top 20 firms in the us out there already on board

[00:21:55] and they've also picked up like wendy's um and uh crumble cookies i don't know crumble cookies but i do

[00:22:01] know wendy's and they're a very big organization so um some some good badges to get on the website from a

[00:22:06] promo point of view definitely i mean let's automate all accounts it's easy we can do that

[00:22:13] um it's good it's good to have an aim doesn't it it's good to have a very long distance target

[00:22:19] uh that maybe you're talking about like it's around the corner but yeah who's to say um i've got a few

[00:22:24] things from sage so um the i guess infamous chris downing our friend uh always puts out a bit of

[00:22:32] information about what sage released over the last month and they have released the ability to

[00:22:37] roll forward personal tax calculations in their personal tax piece of software they've got um

[00:22:42] what i love which is a little validation in their final accounts to pick up any errors um so anything

[00:22:49] where it's looking at the wrong uh information it's pulling through or something that just kind of

[00:22:54] guides you to where there may be some problems and what i like is that sage have been doing a lot of

[00:22:58] focus on this and various elements of their their tech stack and they are just giving prompts little

[00:23:03] things that make it easy for us to identify tweaks things we might missed and to to guide the eye and i

[00:23:10] think that's a really good release they've got um refunds and purchase payments in sage accounting

[00:23:14] which admittedly i thought they already had so maybe this is just a nuanced way of moving this from

[00:23:20] um the the receivable side to the payable side and then you've got um partial payments in sage

[00:23:25] accounting individual um which i don't think i've actually seen i think this was talked about a

[00:23:31] while ago and was that free element of the software um or at least very very cheap uh but it enables the

[00:23:38] collecting of deposits um and partial payments they've been rolling out functionality that side

[00:23:42] then it also talks about multi-currency consolidations futurely but we've already covered that in the show

[00:23:46] so i'm not going to talk about that now amazing well that's a great set of updates and i've got

[00:23:53] one final update which is from cch and they have launched um ifirm validate which is focused entirely

[00:24:01] on auditors um and it's a new tool to target uh how to do the bank confirmation part of the audit

[00:24:07] which is a fairly fundamental part of the audit audit work um and essentially um or perhaps not not

[00:24:14] too unsurprisingly they are looking to do a number of things but immediately as to leverage the open

[00:24:19] banking technology that's been around now for a good few years to be able to uh get access to bank data

[00:24:24] and return a return verification uh confirmations uh really quickly they're also leveraging uh blockchain

[00:24:31] technology to store this information so it's held um securely confidentially um and can form part of

[00:24:38] the evidence and can be uh it can be uh you know tracked uh for any potential like changes or amendments

[00:24:43] that are made now i have seen iphone validate uh i saw it a few months ago at a cch roadshow uh i must

[00:24:51] admit i was a bit underwhelmed to be perfectly honest i mean there are better uh products out there which

[00:24:56] uh do this job uh more effectively uh and and with a nicer ui and ux and um you know this is just part

[00:25:03] of i think is just you know cch trying to round out their suite in terms of looking at the functionality

[00:25:09] that's already missing in there and as they do move make this transition to the cloud with their

[00:25:13] products they are looking to kind of round out the suite so they can continue to be competitive in

[00:25:18] the market if you like in terms of trying to tie people into as many parts of the puzzle that

[00:25:22] they've got and we've seen the same from bright group as they've been like building out um you know

[00:25:26] proposal functionality uh aml functionality cch done the same they launched their aml product fairly

[00:25:33] recently as well in probably the last six months or so um but the reality is is like when you

[00:25:38] like go to these roadshows and when you see these products is that where cch have uh this domain

[00:25:44] knowledge you know around accounts production around tax around you know day-to-day compliance

[00:25:49] so things that they're a fundamental part of their suites to build around the products that they

[00:25:52] showcase and demonstrate uh for the cloud look really really promising where they don't have

[00:25:57] domain knowledge so around their aml products around validate is these products are to be honest

[00:26:02] a little bit woolly and and they are lacking functionality and and and you know my big concern and i've said

[00:26:07] this about bright as well is like look they should be focusing in on the core products that they they know

[00:26:12] and have uh and can produce really well because they've got lots of competitive challenges from

[00:26:16] you know people like silverfin people like uh you know the other suites in the world moving to cloud

[00:26:21] and and they really need to nail their core fundamental products forget the rubbish around the outside

[00:26:26] forget aml forget other things there are better products out there for people to move to and given that

[00:26:31] everything's moving to the cloud and we're going to have working in a world of open apis and cch

[00:26:36] have promised that their cloud products in ifr will be available to connect to through api

[00:26:40] is that people are going to want to move to best of breed they might they might think that they

[00:26:44] want to use cch products but the compromise and a cloud only suite is too great to bear yes i mean

[00:26:51] that's uh just focus as you say focus on what you're good at focus on what you're good at and get

[00:26:55] it out faster we've been waiting long enough um but yeah i'm excited on what they're building

[00:27:00] i hope it delivers on everything it's promising to be i i agree i mean i've seen i've seen their

[00:27:06] accounts production stuff the early stages it looks really good i'd say it's better than zero

[00:27:10] tax it's better than some of the other stuff we've seen out there same for the tax products

[00:27:13] i'm like genuinely impressed like there's some there's some weird nuances don't get me wrong in

[00:27:18] terms of still having to link through to things like cch central which is an on-prem solution

[00:27:21] that's a that's a bad choice which needs to be ironed out and fixed but uh but but genuinely

[00:27:26] where they have domain knowledge those products look really really good and i have one of their

[00:27:31] products in our roadmap for the for the business going forward in the next two years as something

[00:27:35] that would be a viable solution for us so it's not all bad news for cch no little sneak peek there

[00:27:41] john um and that brings us to another end of app news thanks all hi and welcome to kaylee graham

[00:27:53] to the digi tools podcast um kaylee graham for those of you who don't know uh has worked at telleroo for

[00:28:01] how many years now kaylee two and a half two and a half and before that was capitalized capitalized

[00:28:09] that's right and before that was natwest yeah you've got a good um history in financial financial services

[00:28:18] and all things to do with payments i guess and in terms of being able to roll out um payments as a

[00:28:26] service as well to clients so um hey kaylee and i met well a few years back when you first joined

[00:28:33] um telleroo and i am so jealous of where you work because actually telleroo has uh an ethos i think

[00:28:41] is unmatched by most companies in the space because i actually have an ethos where it comes to like

[00:28:45] company and like mindset where the the business is at least orchestrated around principles and values

[00:28:52] that seems fairly strong so you guys have amazing away days so for anyone who doesn't already follow

[00:28:58] or connect with kg you know that you're missing out a little bit because hey you're always away on a trip

[00:29:05] somewhere either by yourself or with the team and so the culture looks just fabulous and i guess can

[00:29:12] you talk to that for a little bit for a moment just to tell us a little bit about telleroo what they do

[00:29:17] for anyone who has been living under a rock and doesn't know what you do um and then also just

[00:29:22] you know how how the last couple of years have been for telleroo yeah absolutely um headline we're a bulk

[00:29:28] payment provider uh both supplier and payroll predominantly for accountant and bookkeeping firms

[00:29:32] i think on the culture piece that's been one of our biggest achievements when i joined we were a team of

[00:29:39] six we're now a team of nearly 30 and i think with that you really risk losing the culture that you

[00:29:46] have initially right when there's six of you and you can all hop on a zoom call and you can all be

[00:29:49] really open and really frank and have really great conversations and you can make quick decisions and all

[00:29:55] of those things as you scale to a team of 30 and then beyond that it's really easy for that stuff to

[00:30:01] get lost and for you to build processes for the sake of processes and you build decisioning

[00:30:07] trees etc that end up taking a bunch of time and actually what we've managed to keep is the ability

[00:30:13] to make quick decisions but i think the values piece is probably most important where when we were

[00:30:18] six people we put the customer first and we always did the right thing and we acted with integrity

[00:30:22] at 30 people we still do all of those things and sometimes that means having really really

[00:30:27] difficult conversations internally that result in maybe a less positive uh situation for telleroo

[00:30:34] whether that's a revenue decision whether that's a decision about wanting to do something cool and

[00:30:38] fun from an engineering perspective but having to prioritize something that is a fix for a customer

[00:30:43] like those conversations aren't always easy but the fact that we stand by them means that i go to sleep

[00:30:50] every night and our leadership team go to sleep every night knowing that we make the right decisions

[00:30:54] and if we haven't made the right decision we put our hands up and we own it and we do what needs to be

[00:30:58] done to fix it and rectify it and i think that's one thing that our long-standing firms really really

[00:31:03] respect is we're super open and honest about our capabilities what we can do what we can't do where

[00:31:08] we're good where we're not and that honesty i think is what's built a lot of trust in those those

[00:31:12] relationships yeah it's very it's very interesting to see the development journey of telleroo

[00:31:18] it was actually telleroo i came across it when i was at an accounting tech and we used telleroo

[00:31:24] on um that side of the payment collection piece since then there's been an influx of different forms

[00:31:31] of technology that have come into this space that have all maybe been confused or put in the same

[00:31:37] bucket and slightly smooshed together you spoke to some of this recently in terms of being able to

[00:31:43] get the right kind of positioning with it and ryan i know that you're quite um keen on this space and in

[00:31:51] terms of looking at the app techs that are out there so i'd be really interested to understand

[00:31:58] how this sits in the space relative to the other players and also um from an accounting perspective

[00:32:05] brian like you know what are your thoughts in terms of um how you see it fitting into the mix

[00:32:10] in general relative to the other apps that are out there yeah well i guess you know first thing i

[00:32:17] should say is that we use telleroo at scrum bland as part of our um outsourcing offering uh and it's

[00:32:23] something that has actually enabled us to change from being bookkeepers to um being outsourcers if

[00:32:29] that's a word um but enhance our service and do a lot more with our clients which i shouldn't like

[00:32:35] kay will be able to talk a lot more about than uh me and how telleroo's enabled that but um yeah how

[00:32:41] does it define or how do you kind of define where it sits um i think partly it's what are you trying to

[00:32:46] achieve what what clients you're going after um my experience from working with telleroo is that

[00:32:52] they're very much focused on uh the accountancy market and and enhancing the services for those

[00:32:58] accountants whereas a lot of the others in this space are more direct to market they might be going

[00:33:01] through the accountants to get to those clients but it's for the clients to run it themselves and

[00:33:07] telleroo have always been around very good controls very scalable so we've had a query recently

[00:33:13] where the client's got an insane amount of payments that need to be done in a in one month in the year

[00:33:17] and uh kaydian team have been helping us in uh enable that for the client and save a significant

[00:33:22] amount of time and cost of them having to go through their their bank directly so um you know the

[00:33:28] the ability to scale and the ability to automate and um that structure that's built specifically for

[00:33:35] accountants i think is a key differentiator in in the market what kay is that kind of how you see it

[00:33:41] absolutely if you want a job come on board um i think that's exactly it right i think when we look

[00:33:48] at what's happening in our space we've seen a lot of people come into the space and a lot of people

[00:33:52] leave the space and i truly think that's because the barrier to entry to let's offer payments uh to

[00:33:59] the accountant and bookkeeping space is relatively low you can set up as an emd under someone else

[00:34:04] and start offering open banking payments relatively easily right and i think with that comes this idea

[00:34:10] that right accountants bookkeepers have a bunch of clients that are making payments great let's go

[00:34:14] after them but i think what you touched on there right about it being scalable and purposely for

[00:34:19] accountants and bookkeepers is the main thing because the conversations that we're having with

[00:34:24] firms aren't hey do you want to offer payments great here you go the conversation is what do you

[00:34:29] want to achieve as a firm you want to grow okay great are you looking to do that through acquisition

[00:34:33] of new customers or growth of existing okay for example you want to do it through growth of

[00:34:37] existing okay well how many bookkeeping clients have you got we've got 100 bookkeeping clients great

[00:34:42] what happens if we turn that 100 bookkeeping clients that you're charging 200 pounds a month

[00:34:46] into fully outsourced finance clients that you're charging a thousand pounds a month

[00:34:50] great that's going to do wonders for for that growth plan that you have teller is only going to be one

[00:34:55] tiny part of that right it's going to be the payments piece but how do we have a wider

[00:34:59] conversation about that shift and how we then implement that and how we go down that channel

[00:35:03] and that means that our sales cycle our implementation cycle is way longer but it means that the growth we

[00:35:10] get is is completely different because what we're not doing is going in and solving a pain point for

[00:35:14] just two clients we're talking about how you roll out payments as a service line as a core part of

[00:35:19] your now outsourced finance offering and to me that's a very different conversation than do you have

[00:35:23] clients that make more than 10 payments a month great here's a solution to make that quicker for them

[00:35:28] yeah and i think the other the other bit that um helps in this is that generally if you're doing

[00:35:32] bookkeeping and it's not all the kind of if you're doing bookkeeping you might have a payroll department

[00:35:35] and something that was very important for us when we were selecting a payment provider was that you we

[00:35:42] could do the payment runs and the supplier payments all through the same tool and the fact

[00:35:47] that teller integrates into a number of payroll platforms one being um employment hero which we use

[00:35:52] made that important one thing i would like to kind of pick your brains a bit about um cody is that

[00:35:57] um telleroo historically has always been a funded account you have to transfer the money in

[00:36:00] and to then enable those payments and a lot have now come out with that open banking approach so you

[00:36:06] don't need a funded account you pull it straight out of the um your own bank account but that comes

[00:36:12] with limitations because not all you know bank accounts have the same flexibility from um an open

[00:36:17] banking perspective so then you get a bit of a hybrid where you have an open banking connection but

[00:36:21] you have a funded account and you can pull it out and distribute to suppliers but it's just become

[00:36:26] messy and a bit confusing in the marketplace so where is teller at the moment and where are they

[00:36:30] going in in from that kind of engine perspective so we are still funded accounts at the moment we set

[00:36:36] up those accounts they're opened in the client's name has its own account number its own sort code

[00:36:39] and i still truly believe that if you are a firm that is looking to scale this as a service line

[00:36:45] that is currently still your best bet and i appreciate i am slightly biased but to me it's because it's

[00:36:50] scalable it's the same process for every single client that you're going to bring on board they run through

[00:36:53] that process now we are not blind to the fact that open banking functionality is continuing to improve

[00:36:58] and so one of the things we did do was we implemented the ability for clients to fund those accounts

[00:37:03] using open banking so within the platform they can use open banking to fund those accounts get the benefit

[00:37:08] and the the sexiness of going through that journey but actually you still keep the functionality from

[00:37:13] our perspective the other piece is reconciliation if we start using open banking tech we lose all control over the way that

[00:37:19] those things reconcile back into the likes of zero and what you might find is that you have three ten pound payments

[00:37:24] to abc limited that we we club together as one thirty pound payment that goes out when that comes back to reconcile we've got no

[00:37:32] control over what that's going to do and it's going to go you sent thirty pound to abc limited and we don't know what it was for

[00:37:37] because we're still running those funded accounts we have control over the way that comes back and again it means that we create a

[00:37:42] streamlined process that's scalable over and over again now there are five core open banking products and we continue to review those on a quarter of a year when it comes into the past and we do what we do

[00:37:49] basis and continue to look at are we missing a trick is this something that we should be

[00:37:53] implementing so for example one of those is vrps which is variable recurring payments which is

[00:37:58] similar idea to direct debits where we'll be able to pull the funds in using that there's only nine

[00:38:03] banks that signed up to it so i could do it tomorrow but it only solves a problem for those

[00:38:06] that bank with those nine banks and this is the the piece that we talk about but i think what

[00:38:10] happens is people hear open banking fund directly from your account it sounds fun it sounds sexy it

[00:38:15] sounds seamless until you try and roll that out with 50 clients and then you realize how unscalable

[00:38:20] that is and the fact that you've got document nine different processes for nine different banks

[00:38:25] yeah and i think the i mean if we look at kind of who's in the market now you've got what apron

[00:38:31] you've got nook you've got um memo you did have um i've completely forgot the name of the one that

[00:38:37] was built on a comma it was built on open banking and then and then when um and so you've got i guess

[00:38:43] competitors in the space is there one that you think are and you know we're asking a very direct

[00:38:49] question here but one you think are more similar or more in competition with you um or do you see

[00:38:54] yourself kind of very different to what they're doing honestly i think if i was to say biggest

[00:39:01] competitor like the people we actually come up against on a on a regular basis i would probably say

[00:39:06] modular right because they're they're the most established so when we're talking about mid-size

[00:39:10] larger firms going through this process and evaluating i think they're looking for stability

[00:39:14] they're looking for longevity they're looking for scalability i think it's probably those guys i

[00:39:18] think what memo are doing is really cool with their ideas around funding at point of need etc

[00:39:23] i think there's a risk around that our clients getting the right advice about taking debt at that

[00:39:27] point maybe maybe not i i can't comment any further than that right but i think it's a really cool

[00:39:32] concept of actually funding at point of need i think we're seeing a real trend in that in the

[00:39:36] lending space around how we get clients at point of need anyway i think aprons approach of trying to

[00:39:41] bring everything in house and do cards payments capture everything in one space i think particularly

[00:39:46] in the bookkeeping world itself is going to be really interesting i think people are becoming tired

[00:39:52] of app stacks and having to constantly think about how these things integrate and i think

[00:39:55] at that smaller and having the ability to bring in one thing and have it work for a number of

[00:40:00] functions is going to be really really great for them nook i think conceptually again very similar

[00:40:06] idea of doing that whole end-to-end process i think it works but i i still think for us the

[00:40:11] differentiator is that we've established a process that is scalable and for a lot of firms we work

[00:40:16] with they already have their core app stack set up they're using a dex they're using an approval max

[00:40:20] into a zero they're not looking to go back and remove all of those and start from scratch again

[00:40:25] what they want is something that's going to work and function with what they've already got and enhance

[00:40:29] the service not have to build up an entirely new one definitely and i think you make a very good

[00:40:34] point on on modular because historically modular were very much a sage focused product and they've

[00:40:39] kind of broadened now um and i think because of that and their integrations yeah you make a very

[00:40:43] good point because they're established they've been around for a long time um and yeah i can i can

[00:40:47] understand that on that kaylee so um you mentioned an approach that if accountants wanted to roll

[00:40:55] or look into their services the services that they offer um that actually there's some things that

[00:41:02] steps that they should consider in how they should go about that what the process is so i wanted if you

[00:41:10] share that for some of those that maybe are looking at this space haven't quite got into this space and

[00:41:16] then are looking at whether this is right for their practice or their firm because they currently don't

[00:41:21] already offer something along this line and to brian's point and to yours right there's so many

[00:41:27] different applications out there so i think what's really helpful to know is like what are the

[00:41:32] 10 questions or whatever the the things that they should ask themselves before coming to you or come to

[00:41:40] any the table with any of the apps that are out there yeah i think the first piece is what is it that

[00:41:46] you're trying to achieve as a firm just high level goals removing payments out the picture what is it

[00:41:50] that you're looking to do do you want to be acquiring new customers are you looking to go deeper with

[00:41:55] existing customers what is it that you want to do because actually if you are focused on compliance

[00:41:59] and you just want thousands of compliance clients there is no point stepping into this space if

[00:42:05] actually what you're looking to do is move towards being more of an out for outsourced finance function

[00:42:09] for clients then this is a path that you can start to explore and what does that look like

[00:42:12] the next piece is an assessment of current processes where are you getting to how close are you getting to

[00:42:18] payments at the moment i think is that the key there if you're doing everything up to the point

[00:42:22] of payment client does payments and then you're reconciling there is a very obvious gap that you

[00:42:26] can then close if actually you still haven't got all of your data input stuff right we probably need

[00:42:32] to go back and work on that do we have the right systems and processes to get us to the point where

[00:42:35] we can make accurate payments okay once we've done that we can then look at filling that gap right

[00:42:41] that's on the the kind of supplier payment side on the payroll side it's a lot easier

[00:42:44] you're probably producing payroll and then shipping them out a report for the client to pay

[00:42:48] all you're doing is for a back service if it's back let's look at the cost associated with that

[00:42:52] of you being a back bureau is there just a cost saving there is it an efficiency thing right

[00:42:56] but i think the majority of questioning comes on the supplier side then it breaks down to me into three

[00:43:02] key sectors the lovely three p's which is people platform and process that's when you start diving

[00:43:07] into it you start looking at who's going to be responsible for this and the risk associated with it

[00:43:11] that's when we start thinking about indemnity insurance who's approving these payments is there

[00:43:16] an impact on that and again these are things that go people just don't think about they go yeah we're

[00:43:20] going to do payments we're going to approve them for the client and i go did your insurer know that

[00:43:23] and they go oh no and and you have to backtrack on these things right so there's the people who's

[00:43:28] involved who's responsible for the risk from the client side what are the responsibilities

[00:43:31] you've then got the platform piece and i still think that in our industry evaluation of apps is not done

[00:43:38] as efficiently as it should be are you actually thinking about the functionality that you need

[00:43:42] are you doing comparisons based on that or are you going this person was my account manager at zero

[00:43:46] 10 years ago so we'll use that piece of software and i think unfortunately we have a lot of people

[00:43:51] guilty of the latter people are great and and it's important that we're working with the right people

[00:43:55] but are we actually looking at software functionality probably not all the time um and then process what

[00:44:00] does this look like again it's all well and great seeing a piece of software and it goes

[00:44:03] you can onboard someone and make a make a payment or start doing this in 10 minutes but like should

[00:44:07] you is that what you should be doing you probably wouldn't launch an audit service tomorrow so why

[00:44:12] payments and it's because that barrier to entry has been marketed and made to seem so low and quite

[00:44:17] often i'm saying to people just stop for a second what is the process here how are you going to charge

[00:44:21] for this if you're recharging software have you got that set up do you know that telleroo is

[00:44:25] that exempt because it's banking services are you like all of these things that people don't think

[00:44:29] about that actually we stop we sit back we do that piece with them and then we go okay now we identify

[00:44:34] your initial clients and we do the who are your happy nice clients that are going to be happy to

[00:44:38] trial this and work through that process and we do a handful of those and then we talk about scalability

[00:44:43] and training the rest of the team and marketing comms and building it into existing packages

[00:44:47] and all the stuff that should happen when you launch a new service

[00:44:52] very interesting see there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes i guess then

[00:44:56] and i do recall actually that telleroo has at least taken an approach with that i i recall as well

[00:45:06] where you are capitalized there was a lot of that as well like in terms of being able to train

[00:45:11] in because it's not a natural fit is it financial services and obviously anyone that that will remember

[00:45:18] the history or even the nature of why this podcast originated will know that like i always came from

[00:45:23] dirty world of financing as well so um in that sense like i think that the approach is always

[00:45:32] that i can see the trend going more towards again once more payment and that like you said the pre-funding

[00:45:41] the risk control measures that are around it allow it to become a better mechanism

[00:45:46] for the customer where it comes to being sure that they're making the right payments in the right way

[00:45:53] to the right people there's a lot of like again and that's that's the the heartland of accountants

[00:46:00] right compliance so i i like the methodology and i think like you said following a process like that gives

[00:46:07] you the assurance that you've gone about it in the right way because there are so many things that

[00:46:13] you can trip over and not know you're tripping over by virtue of the fact that you think well okay

[00:46:17] that's the the tech company the fintech whatever they must have sorted that but i think what i really

[00:46:23] like about this is if i look at it just from like the payments perspective and again the financing

[00:46:27] perspective and what could end up being something that you in this innocence like all of that data

[00:46:33] like you said whether you used that open banking for it to speed up and to make it a more frictionless

[00:46:39] process the fact is it's the risk that needs to be controlled as well in doing something that speeds it up

[00:46:47] is actually introducing the risk of the things that you need to put in place to control that risk

[00:46:56] beyond open banking is the checks i think the what makes it personal now is that we we went through

[00:47:02] covid and everyone started to go okay we need to look at our systems we want to bring cloud systems

[00:47:05] we need to automate more to make this more efficient as we come out the back end of covid

[00:47:08] then we went through um you know this kind of financial not crisis but where everyone's pinched

[00:47:14] from a money perspective well the first thing that that does is that increases the risk of potential

[00:47:19] fraud in businesses because your employees are you know struggling and they're just more

[00:47:25] you know they're always wondering i could try and skim off the top here and if you've not got the

[00:47:29] controls in place of the business then you know you're opening yourself up to that so a lot of clients i

[00:47:33] talk to are thinking oh i kind of want to outsource this i want to take it away from those people we've got

[00:47:37] individually not because i don't trust them i just want to manage risk here so if they're reaching

[00:47:41] out to their advisor they want to make sure their advisor's got the controls in place because if

[00:47:45] they're doing it just as you know they're logging into our banking portal and making the payments

[00:47:48] well i'm not managing the risk i'm just moving it from one place to another and that's where you

[00:47:53] know these locked down systems where you have to have approvals in certain access rights really

[00:47:58] manage that entire process and and kind of completely if you do it right eliminate the risk in the

[00:48:04] payment space on the um on the fraud piece there were some changes that recently came in as of the

[00:48:09] 7th of october we had a bunch of changes around app fraud reimbursement as well and it's a

[00:48:14] conversation that we're having with firms at the moment so in the telleroo platform you when you're

[00:48:18] on board a client you have two options you can have management access or you can have submission

[00:48:22] access management access gives you the ability to approve payments on a client's behalf

[00:48:26] now with the changes around app fraud reimbursement the payment sender is going to be

[00:48:32] responsible for potentially compensating fraudulent payments up to 85 000 pounds per payment the

[00:48:38] challenge with that means that when i have accountants and bookkeepers approving payments

[00:48:42] that are fraudulent i'm going to be coming back to them and going what controls and checks did you

[00:48:47] have in place to make sure that that wasn't fraudulent because we've done our checks on our end

[00:48:50] but what did you do on your end because i need to be sure that you were doing the right thing

[00:48:54] and this is when we start talking about indemnity insurance and so the conversation that we've

[00:48:58] gone out to firms with is anyone that has approval rights on behalf of the client i'm asking the

[00:49:01] question do you need them and should you have them or should we be pushing this responsibility to

[00:49:06] business owners finance managers within those teams to again manage the risk not only for business

[00:49:11] owner and put some some emphasis on them owning that process but also to protect the firms right to

[00:49:16] make sure that you are not having an unnecessary level of risk for what actually should be a client

[00:49:21] responsibility to go in and approve those payments for example now that's different if you're

[00:49:25] working as a fractional fd for the client and you are in-house and you're involved and fine it makes

[00:49:29] sense for you to have those rights but if not let's start talking about switching those off what did

[00:49:34] you think kaylee of ryan's recent um post on social when it came to talking about influencers in this

[00:49:43] space and honestly give us your perspective because i think that ryan is like the most open and the most

[00:49:48] at least gross mindset orientated bummer that i've met so i just think that he's open to hearing from

[00:49:56] exactly from your perspective because you are so again you are so present on social media

[00:50:02] sure what i read it the first time i just kind of sighed and scrolled past it and then i went back to

[00:50:07] to see what people were commenting more than anything and i think i think i have two perspectives on this

[00:50:13] on one hand i'm like sigh here we go again and then on the other hand i'm like there are parts of it that i

[00:50:20] i can understand people's frustrations and why they feel this way about things right and i think

[00:50:26] my overall opinion on all things like this when it comes to social media is if it's working for

[00:50:32] someone and they're not hurting anyone leave them be i think is my my general rule on it but i think

[00:50:39] the the challenge becomes when it can become damaging to people because actually if we are talking about

[00:50:50] just as an example female influencers posting with a bit of cleavage out fine maybe it does draw in

[00:50:59] 10 guys that are creepy guys that come and like it right i would be a liar if i didn't say i've put posts

[00:51:04] out where it's a selfie of me and i get 10 random us marines liking it and i'm like oh great block block

[00:51:09] block right so i'm not sure i'm not blind to the fact that that absolutely does happen right but i think

[00:51:17] the challenge with that is that's then to say that if i was to go into a room and present to 10 partners

[00:51:23] at an accountancy firm which i've done many a time at what point do we start saying that the reason why

[00:51:29] they entertain a conversation with me is because i'm 26 and relatively attractive is that then what

[00:51:36] we're saying is that the reason why i get a foot in the door for those conversations or is it based

[00:51:40] on what i'm saying and the content that's going out around that so i think that there becomes a part

[00:51:44] where it can become damaging and potentially a challenge and i think that's the piece that we have

[00:51:48] to be aware of and in an industry where our women are not making it to the top of chains a lot of the time

[00:51:55] those that are putting themselves out there those that are taking the risk putting themselves on social

[00:51:59] media having a voice talking about things i think we need to be supportive and careful of that some

[00:52:04] of the the comments that we make around that because similarly there was a guy recently who posted about

[00:52:09] the ignition top 50 women and basically submitted himself and then posted a screenshot and was like

[00:52:14] anyone can get a nomination so what's the point and his thing was well self-nominated awards are

[00:52:19] pointless and i was like great but you've chosen to go after the one that's specifically for women

[00:52:23] in our industry not accounting excellence that everyone also self-submits for why is that and i

[00:52:28] think they're the bits we have to be conscious of you wanted me to jump in here indy i mean anyone

[00:52:33] who has watched game of thrones knows that that scene where you know shame the cersei scene oh shame

[00:52:39] shame mine it's the most enjoyable scene as long as you're not referring to me as varus because

[00:52:47] it's another bald white man it's okay oh i'm not i'm not discriminating am i right no not at all um

[00:52:57] we've got our own acronym now so it's fine um but we should we should tell people actually what that

[00:53:02] means do you think don't you think because they're gonna say it's your acronym no no no no we'll let

[00:53:08] them figure out is whammo for anyone that's listening you guys figure out what it is because

[00:53:13] we'll give you a clue the first word is ball

[00:53:19] the rest you have to work out um yeah i mean the the post it uh did get a bit more attention than

[00:53:26] uh i believed it was going to from when i did it um and it it comes from uh you know personal

[00:53:31] frustrations and i i have to make it very clear it's not directed at a sex it's not directed um at a

[00:53:37] um uh i guess a type of person here um and it wasn't just at uh how people present themselves

[00:53:44] it was how they talk how they interact um there was lots of parts to it and the bit that i think

[00:53:49] most people that i've talked to seem to have missed is that at the end i was actually asking how do i act

[00:53:55] like please i want to learn like tell me what i'm doing wrong tell me if i am becoming a very

[00:54:00] stereotypical angry white bald man um and and then um then i can you know educate myself from this

[00:54:07] because part of this is that if we are you know being present we are voicing our thoughts is that we

[00:54:14] have a responsibility because people will listen to us people will um uh take us at our word and i think

[00:54:21] more important from what i was trying to do um was more identify those that were maybe being

[00:54:27] misleading those were that weren't being honest about who they are how they are and creating a

[00:54:34] story that is not uh that is fictitious and that was the ones that are the most frustrating i was

[00:54:39] saying honestly i'm totally on board with that and i think unfortunately one thing that our industry

[00:54:43] still does very poorly is call people out we call people out for stuff that probably isn't the stuff

[00:54:49] that he's calling out right people would have no problem jumping on your post and being like you

[00:54:52] can't say this or you can't do that but the people that are promoting software that they don't use

[00:54:56] no one says a word the people that are getting out there and preaching how to grow your firm to three

[00:55:00] million revenue and sold their practice for pennies are not being called out right like there's a lot

[00:55:05] of people that probably should be being called out by name and talked about that aren't that people

[00:55:09] whisper about in the shadows but actually i think it's easier for people to call out the the light

[00:55:15] stuff but feel like they're really taking a stand than it is to actually call out some of the poor

[00:55:20] behavior that's going on the one thing i didn't expect from this is the amount of posts that are now

[00:55:25] showing a bit of skin and then tagging me in them as uh as doing a ryan which i think is is an odd

[00:55:32] thing um i'm not saying i'm encouraging or discouraging that i just didn't expect it

[00:55:39] oh ryan i feel so sorry for you no you don't i know i don't no i don't but actually like you know i

[00:55:49] think um it goes to actually to many things that you have covered before kaylee it's not just one of

[00:55:55] the things that i uh that you know you you've been able to at least grasp something that i think most

[00:56:02] people struggle with is at least you know if you're going to be brave be brave across the board

[00:56:07] or don't be brave at all so really good point um and i think um to that end obviously we were also

[00:56:17] looking at your contribution you were a judge recently for the accounting excellence awards

[00:56:23] the d and i category so yeah um how did you know we spoke briefly on that at the awards itself

[00:56:30] um and what what what was the kind of experience like what was the criteria what other things can

[00:56:37] you share with us in terms of what you looked for because it's not just a it's something that's quite

[00:56:41] close to your heart and some of the things that you've spoken about on social have been very much

[00:56:48] championing that in several different ways so be really good to just hear how that came about for

[00:56:54] from the awards perspective and then more broadly as well i think yeah absolutely so i've done a fair

[00:56:59] bit of work with accounting web around dei content in the past and um at festival accountants

[00:57:06] and bookkeepers this year i did a session all around dei it was a like basically a dei workshop

[00:57:12] and the focus was really around unconscious bias how to handle that and then and then moving forward

[00:57:16] from that and actually off the back of that i had some really good feedback from people in attendance

[00:57:21] but also people saying that they were concerned about the diversity at the event right and so

[00:57:26] there's a separate conversation i'm having with them about that but as part of that they

[00:57:29] then asked me to be a judge for this year's awards which i was really excited about the process itself

[00:57:35] was interesting to me i'd never judged them before so i didn't know what to expect from that process

[00:57:39] and effectively we are given a short list of entries and there are a number of questions that they have

[00:57:45] to answer around what it is that they're doing who they are as a firm what they think um obviously

[00:57:49] makes them eligible for the award they can supply supporting evidence etc etc and we're given access

[00:57:55] to those entries separately as judges and we go through that and we review them and we effectively

[00:58:00] score them um on on those different criteria of how impactful we think they are etc etc and then we

[00:58:07] come together as a judging group and effectively calibrate those scores right and work out okay out of

[00:58:12] these entries who do we think is the winner who do we think is the short list from that why um and there

[00:58:18] was some disagreement in that conversation right there were people that thought one firm did amazing and i was

[00:58:22] kind of like in my opinion they're doing the basics so is that an awardable thing and i think

[00:58:29] that was probably the thing that i found most frustrating was that i know there are lots of firms

[00:58:34] that are doing incredible things in that space have worked really hard to improve their efforts and to make

[00:58:39] it not a tick box exercise but part of who they are and part of their culture that didn't apply for

[00:58:46] those awards and i think that's that's the same in all categories right but they don't apply for

[00:58:49] those awards and so we don't get to to see them to hear from them to hear those stories which i think

[00:58:53] is a real shame now for me the key thing in that judging process was who is it that's going above and

[00:58:59] beyond who is it that's building in this into who they are not just one initiative that is okay how do we

[00:59:05] bring more women into our business for example but it's how are we doing multiple things around um

[00:59:11] yes fine like diversity of sex diversity of age etc but also what are we doing around remote work

[00:59:17] how do we handle people that learn in different ways how are we supporting the community outside

[00:59:21] of our business etc and what does that then look like as a whole for a business where dei feels like

[00:59:26] part of who they are not just something that they do and the winners i think who are the winners for

[00:59:30] this category this year so this year's winner was be motion wow yeah i i thought it was really

[00:59:38] interesting to see it as a category come up and pleased to see that there's something that sets the baseline

[00:59:47] or something because it is difficult when you see a category that i think people feel quite uncomfortable

[00:59:56] to talk about yeah how they're getting there or what their stance is on it especially if they don't have

[01:00:04] um a proactive plan around how they manage dei um is very difficult to open the conversation

[01:00:13] and i think that's something that at least putting it there on a stage is just start yeah

[01:00:20] it provokes the conversation and i think that's what we all look for really is some way to then

[01:00:26] have a baseline to provoke a conversation so that people can learn and to be fair i think that's why

[01:00:34] it's really great to see it up there uh and again to see all the stuff that you've spoken about

[01:00:39] over the last few years actually yeah absolutely well thank you for joining us today kaylee and um i'm

[01:00:47] really pleased that you could come on to talk to us about all things telleroo um and also broadly

[01:00:52] about the space in general where it comes to payments tech the rollout of that um i think

[01:00:58] we've had quite a lot of keen interest looking at that that space and so it's really helpful to be

[01:01:03] able to hear it from you in terms of like the process people should undergo when they're looking at

[01:01:08] doing something along these lines and if you don't already follow kaylee which i'd be a real

[01:01:14] surprise if you don't you can find her on probably what all the main socials kaylee or which is the one

[01:01:20] that you prefer to linkedin predominantly is where you'll you'll catch me yeah so kelly graham um at

[01:01:27] telleroo and hopefully um we'll catch you again at the next event absolutely thank you for having me

[01:01:34] and that brings us to another end of a show thank you for listening hopefully this show has brought

[01:01:39] you uh some interesting tidbits little bits of information you've not come across and can take

[01:01:43] away and use i've been left on my own john and indy have gone so instead of the normal request for

[01:01:49] reviews comments i want you to do something different if you are listening to this please

[01:01:53] send me a message something to wind them up about something to call them out on the next episode

[01:01:58] something they're not expecting because they're not here to record um if you do that i'll make sure i

[01:02:03] include it in the next show so yeah be interesting send me a message

[01:02:07] go get back to the next episode

[01:02:07] now we'll catch you