Show me the money! Sage vs Xero Results || PLUS Accounting Tech News

[00:00:00] Sage posted a 16% profit boost, reaching £236 million for the first half of its financial year in 2025. Xero reported strong operating revenue growth of 23%, so notably higher than what Sage has been doing. Some huge numbers there, but the one that really stands out for me is... The feature makes it a faster, easier and cheaper way for clients to pay while simplifying the reconciliation process. It allows clients to make real-time payments directly from their bank accounts.

[00:00:29] It just shows that accountants and accounting software are vital in making sure that SMEs are suffering with fewer later payments. If you've not come across Carbon, it is one of the leading, if not the leading, cloud-native practice management solutions. At some keep releasing big features. Now they have brought out the ability to suck in self-assessment. Is it a shakeup on the horizon for how UK companies file their annual financial accounts? So stay ahead of the curve because these changes will come faster than we think.

[00:00:59] We've gone from about 50% adoption of cloud to now 81%. One of the biggest risks that was highlighted for moving to cloud still is enhanced risk of cyber attacks. Whereas actually desktop or hosted solutions, that's the ones that get the attacks at the moment. The cost of the cloud systems is actually a little bit more than your traditional tech stack. The automation it brings can significantly reduce your people cost. If you're not growing, then what do you do with your people?

[00:01:27] Hello and welcome to the DigiTools and Accrual World podcast, the place to go through all your UK and beyond accounting tech news. This episode is brought to you by Scoro, the all-in-one professional services platform where you want to bring all your scattered tools into a single place. And this week I'm joined by the wonderful Indy Tatler, but only Indy. We've lost John again Indy. Yeah, that's not uncommon though, is it? He's gone gallivanting.

[00:01:56] He has gone gallivanting and we love him for it. And hopefully he will return in probably in the next day or two, he'll surface most likely with a hangover and at least a handful of new friends for us to meet. Definitely. I think he's over in Northern Europe at the moment, you know, doing some research about products that will help the firm and his team in developing out their services.

[00:02:25] Very exciting. In other news, what's going on with you? I have just come back from a holiday of which I was ill for half of it, which took the edge off slightly, but did by the end manage to refresh and I'm keen and raring to go. And I was down in the New Forest. Have you ever been to the New Forest? I have in Southampton. Very nice.

[00:02:47] We had the wonderful experience of waking up one morning and opening our front door and there was an entire herd, I think they're called herd, of horses. Is it a herd of horses? That doesn't sound right. Group. I'm just going to call them a group. A group. A gathering of horses that were literally outside our front door, which was a really nice experience. Not something I've ever encountered before, but you felt very much in the middle of nature. Wow. Very nice.

[00:03:17] And you were saying since you've started your new venture in digital transformation, you've been smashing your monthly targets so far. Is that right? Yeah, we've been doing very well. I think a lot of businesses are opening, I guess, their eyes and their pockets to invest in technology and use that to help streamline the business. You know, there's a lot of buzzwords around AI and what it can do in the hype.

[00:03:44] But actually just getting your tech stack in order has a massively positive effect on how you run your business, the insights it can deliver and the flexibility and how you work with your team. Very nice. I had the pleasure of getting a butt dial from you, didn't I, recently while you were mid-pitch to someone else? And you were giving all the dry ice speech, the dry ice and the spotlight. You smashed that. Yeah, I thought that pitch was really good. Very polished.

[00:04:14] Thank you. Unlike my pitch slap countex, which was so awful, I think it got rated last out of everyone that was pitch slapped. You're only positive on it as I managed to get a dig in at John Toon, Drew. Well, somebody had to win the wooden spoon, didn't they? They did. Luckily for you, it was you. Yeah, true. I mean, hopefully I get rewarded with a actual wooden spoon.

[00:04:44] I would take that, gratefully. But it didn't help, I guess, that it was towards the end of the second of very long days and I was pretty exhausted. But no, it was really good. The whole event was great. We had lots of people that we helped navigate to different apps around the show. And yeah, I think we delivered, hopefully, a lot of value. We definitely have been asked to consider doing it again next year.

[00:05:10] It's something that we need to have our heads together and think if we're going to do it. Brilliant. Yep, very good. So, shall we press on to our app news this week? Sounds good indeed. Let's kick this off. I'm going to kick off this week's app news with Sage's record-breaking results.

[00:05:32] Sage has posted a 16% profit boost reaching £236 million for the first half of its financial year this year in 2025. The growth is largely driven by their AI-powered tools, especially Sage's co-pilot, which now boasts 40,000 users in the UK, despite the little hiccup that we were discussing at the start, which they seem to have done away with in a clever little way to say, OK, it's all good now.

[00:06:01] But with the 9% rise in revenue and 97% of it coming from recurring subscriptions, Sage's shift to cloud-based AI-driven solutions is clearly resonating with its market. So, I think for accounts, it's a fairly crucial update as Sage continues to push into AI and setting a new standard in automation by streamlining tax and accounting tasks with his AI co-pilot.

[00:06:29] I think this is valuable for the practices that are looking to reduce manual work and improve accuracy and keep up with the digital transformation trend, which perhaps, Ryan, you can talk a little bit more about, given that that's your sweet spot right now. However, Sage did concern flags, did concern flags? Did flag concern about the current economic uncertainty, which might affect spending behaviours.

[00:06:54] And that's largely down to, I've not seen many articles that would quote Donald Trump as one of the reasons that they're slightly concerned about their growth and why they are, it might cause some caution in their continued growth or recurring revenue and commitment to cloud and AI, etc. So, it shows that, you know, they've got a really good base to work from and they're adapting to the changing landscape that they're in.

[00:07:20] And they recognise that if we spoke about the Sage of maybe three years ago when we started this podcast and the episode where John gave Chris Downing a really good grilling, leaps and bounds different, I'd say. I mean, what do you think, Ryan? Are they kind of, are they relevant? They're not fashionable now? Definitely relevant. Not sure about fashionable. But, you know, they've got two very powerful tools now in the market. Sage, I believe it's called accounting.

[00:07:49] I can never keep up with the name of their small business software that's cloud native. But that system has now grown. And I think the suite they've built around that for accountants is very powerful. And the AI engine is probably one of the ones getting the most positive reviews out of the main small finance systems. So, yeah, I think they've done well in that, even with the little blip. And, you know, they're still growing.

[00:08:20] They're still doing notably well in converting their clients, their existing client base over into a cloud integrated suite. But we'll see. I still think they've got a bit of a gap in the mid-market range that they need to fill. We'll see if they find a good tool to acquire in that space. But as we've been talking about Sage, it only makes sense to also talk about Xero as they have posted their full year earnings the 31st of March 2025. That's interesting to contrast how Xero have been doing against Sage.

[00:08:46] So Xero reported strong operating revenue growth of 23%. So notably higher than what Sage have been doing. But even with their notable revenue growth, they've also stated an increase of 22% in adjusted EBITDA up to $640 million.

[00:09:09] Now, I'm not entirely certain if this is US or Australian dollars in anything I'm looking at here, considering where Xero based. I'm going to assume US and if so, they are, I believe, ahead of Sage in their profitability. Although I'd need to compare directly to validate that. But their growth from a percentage basis is outstripping Sage has been, I guess, the result of their focused three by three strategy.

[00:09:39] Now, when Sikinda came in, Sikinda Cassidy came in, she wanted to focus on what Xero are really good at and strip away a lot of the fluff around the edges, shall we say. And they focused on accounting, on payroll and on payments. Now, the three key markets is where they've been putting a lot of their investment in. And depending on what jurisdiction you sit in is where you're going to have seen, I guess, the biggest impact.

[00:10:04] So from a reporting perspective, you've seen a big impact in the US with the acquisition of Sift and what they've been doing, launching, I guess, enhanced functionality early on in the US market. If you're, I guess, focusing on payroll, then Australia is where you need to be because you've seen the acquisition or not acquisition, but partnering with deputy and some enhanced capabilities in the Australian payroll system. They have noted that they've improved the UK payroll system, although I'm not entirely certain where that is.

[00:10:34] But they've also done a lot with the partnership with Gusto in the US on payroll. And then payments, we've talked about it a lot. They've been doing a lot in the UK from payments for tap to pay. And I'm sure we've got some other news on that as well. But working with US payment solution bill as well has helped them expand in that jurisdiction. So they are focusing these key areas and that seems to have driven the growth.

[00:10:56] And what they've, I guess, established is that their growth from a revenue perspective is about 50% on increasing prices and also upselling to your existing client base. They did change their package structure not that long ago. And that seems to have had a positive impact, although I would note we were a bit critical about it when it was released. And then 50% of their revenue growth has come from an increase in subscriber numbers.

[00:11:21] And I believe the subscriber numbers have increased by 414,000 across all of their jurisdictions and up 10% on the 2024 year. So some huge numbers there. But I think the biggest one, the one that really stands out for me is that their monthly churn is only 1.03%, which is historically low for them and a very low figure.

[00:11:45] But that, and I guess combining other factors, creates a long-term value, lifetime value. There you go. Lifetime value. Of 17.9 billion of their customers, which is a huge figure. So well done, Xero. They've had a very positive year. And yeah, I'm sure it's going to continue.

[00:12:06] I will echo that sentiment because my next piece on app news is exactly about that in terms of Xero and one part of your 3x3, which is the payment side. So faster payments, we saw a few weeks back or certainly at least within the last month that we reported on the podcast, Xero's tap to pay. Well, then now they've launched PayByBank, which is a new feature powered by Stripe.

[00:12:34] Again, talking about that strategic alliance with Stripe that was made last year by Xero. It allows clients to make real-time payments directly from their bank accounts, which streamlines the cash flow and reduces the overall hassle of overdue payments. So I think for our accountants, this is a huge win. PayByBank allows the payments to be instantly approved and visible in the Stripe account with funds typically settled within two business days.

[00:13:02] It improves the efficiency by automating payment reconciliation and ensures invoices are not as paid as soon as the payment is authorised. Here's how accountants can get started. You can activate PayByBank by heading to your Xero dashboard, clicking on the business, then online payments. In the Manage Payment Method tab, you can click Turn On and next you'd set it to say PayByBank. Or you can enable it for existing invoices.

[00:13:31] You can enable the PayByBank for both the future invoices and the unpaid ones. So it gives the clients the ability to pay instantly no matter the status of the invoice. There's a few other instructions that Xero goes into a little bit more detail on in terms of automatic reconciliation and client payment process and how to enable that.

[00:13:55] And then you can get all of that data easily linked to the same account so you get the same single view as your clients. So the feature makes it a faster, easier and cheaper way for clients to pay while simplifying the reconciliation process. It's one more step in how they're continuing to streamline the accounting practices journey, enhancing both the client experience and the workflow. And in general, it aligns with their strategy.

[00:14:24] I know that you and I, Ryan, went to the Houses of Parliament and we were, I don't think we were actually at that point. No, you weren't there. That's right. I was talking to one of the government boards that was there about the problem payment agenda and how Xero have continued to bash down the doors there to put it high on the agenda and make sure that they've got the right kind of things in place at that government level

[00:14:53] to reduce the overall number of days that businesses should get paid down from what was, I think they were trying to get it down to 30 days, which is still a long time. But the fact is that this coupled with tap to pay, it just shows that accountants and accounting software are vital in making sure that these SMEs are suffering with fewer later payments and have better cash flow management options available to them.

[00:15:23] Yeah, it's a very good release. I'm a bit baffled by it, though, because from their payment of suppliers, Xero have partnered with Cresco. That has been the tool that's been powering that side. And Cresco's first release was an open banking powered receipt, receipting system, which integrates directly into Xero and is free. So why they've decided to partner with Stripe for this, which there is a small charge associated, is a little confusing.

[00:15:47] There must be something about the breadth of banks that they'll work with and maybe trying to cover all that maybe Cresco can handle. But yeah, otherwise, it was an odd choice. I know they've got a very deep relationship with Stripe and maybe this is part of that, that they always plan to release it. But yeah, I think the overall odd choice for me. Maybe they will also partner with Cresco and broaden the breadth of options there. Yeah, I think it's about coverage in the end.

[00:16:17] I think it's very simple. Stripe has the ability to cover a much further reach. And then, you know, on top of that, with all the different work streams they've already committed to with Stripe, I just see this as a logical extension of a commercial arrangement between the two, where they know that they can reach probably some jurisdictions. Maybe Cresco isn't really well set up in and Stripe has a mature market there.

[00:16:47] I'm thinking of other jurisdictions where maybe it takes some time and you need to now not be working in the traditional banking methods, but instead you have like some countries, they're very big on having accounts with like Alipay instead of having like traditional bank accounts. So I imagine like Stripe is quite good for those jurisdictions. Makes sense to me. Cool.

[00:17:12] Well, I've got some other news from Xero as I love to bring new apps from the Xero app store to the ears of our listeners. I'll wrap up a few that come out in the last month. And actually the focus of the last month seems to be more non-UK based apps. I'll run through some that are relevant. So we've got one called Easy Interest, which is designed to help businesses get paid on time. And that is hitting every market. And I mean, some, I guess we've seen a few of over the last few years.

[00:17:39] You've got MVDI, which is Deferred Income Solution, which helps you, I guess, to configure invoices to both accrue and defer revenue, ultimately creating the journals inside Xero. And then finally, we've got Carbon, the practice management system. Now, Carbon has integrated into Xero for a while. So they've obviously deepened this relationship and built out the functionality where they can now be an approved Xero app.

[00:18:02] But if you've not come across Carbon and you are in the accounting space, then it is one of the leading, if not the leading, cloud native practice management solutions across UK, US and the Australia New Zealand market. So exactly where Xero fits. So it makes sense to be an approved Xero app on the store. Nice. I have something different, and that is from Zoho Books.

[00:18:29] And it's something that you and I just spoke about before. Zoho Books has earned a shiny ICB accreditation. That's the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers. It sounds super impressive, but as you said just before we started recording, I'm not exactly sure that this is a coveted accreditation that most of us knew about. And Zoho Books isn't exactly the go-to in the accounting software space for many.

[00:18:59] The accreditation means Zoho Books has passed some serious tests in terms of bookkeeping standards. But I'm not sure it's really enough to push them ahead of the giants like Xero or QuickBooks or even Sage in some of the announcements we've seen on their MTD product. Especially when there's plenty of well-known platforms that are beyond that, also MTD compliant and have solid integrations backed by years of trust.

[00:19:25] But for those who are willing to give Zoho Books a good shot, you know, for those new upstarts and perhaps looking for an all-encompassing ERP system, it's got the basics down in terms of automated invoicing, expense tracking, bank reconciliation and over 70 plus financial reports. And on top of that, it's MTD compliant. So it's ready for the upcoming changes to income tax reporting.

[00:19:53] So if you are starting out and a little bit curious and you want to change from the usual suspects, Zoho Books might be worth a try. But unless you're already so deep into Zoho's ecosystem, it might take a little bit more than the ICB accreditation to win some accountants over. But Ryan, I defer to you on that one.

[00:20:16] Will this accreditation persuade you that Zoho Books is the one to push? Or will you still take that with your serious digital transformation lens and critically assess whether it's actually relevant to most clients in your sweet spot? Well, I think one of the first things to point out is that Zoho don't really market too much directly to accountants.

[00:20:42] They're very much direct to business. And if you are a new start-up business and you start on Zoho, you tend to stay on it because you can grow through the sweet. And when you get to a certain size, you start feeling some of the pain points and need to transition. But would the ICB accreditation give more value to this? I mean, it's similar in the fact that ICAW have an accreditation of software.

[00:21:06] And I think in certain aspects, some firms will, I guess, look more at are they on that list or not? Is it creating a hard risk by not being on that list? So maybe for some bookkeepers that are looking for new software, having Zoho on the ICB accreditation list means that, you know, maybe it's worth consideration and another look at. Personally, I find that most accountancy firms struggle to get the information they need in the same way as some of the other leading software.

[00:21:35] But, you know, that's just from my personal experience. Anyway, moving on, I've got something from OpenTax again. So we keep talking about AdSum. They keep releasing big features. Now they have brought out the ability to suck in self-assessment information. Now we had, I guess, last time we talked about an AdSum release, which when they brought out corporation tax, we did a session on this in the live digest.

[00:22:02] And there was a request, basically, I think it was only a month ago, by the guest that was on and myself to say, look, it'd be really, really powerful to her self-assessment on it. Everybody brought it out. It's incredible. And this sucks in the data from HMSE's agent accounts and will allow you to see in a central platform all submission statuses, payments, refunds, and penalties. So you've now got VAT, you've got POAE, you've got corporation tax, and self-assessment

[00:22:30] all inside the same product linked to your clients. You can see where they are at any given stage on this status. But as well as that, they've also brought in single sign-on, so you can roll out the secure feature across all of your staff. And they've brought in the ability to set up automated alerts for filings and submissions. So if you've got certain clients you need to keep on top of, you can tag those and notify the individuals that really need to see it.

[00:22:57] And then finally, I guess, and what I thought was quite nice as well, is that what they've brought out inside the system is you can see whether your client is on a payment plan. Now, there's always so many frustrations in trying to get a client to sort out their overdue libraries for HMRC. You can now see, are they set up on direct debit? Have they got a payment plan in place? Or is this something you can help them through additional advice to get set up, get sorted, and make sure they're managing their tax liabilities?

[00:23:27] Something a little bit different is a shake-up on the horizon for how UK companies file their annual financial accounts. The FRC, the Financial Reporting Council, is leading a review of digital filing rules with a push for simplification and cost reduction driven by increasing regulatory demands and the shift towards better digital compliance. As part of this, companies could face stricter disclosure requirements under the Economic Crime and Transparency Act

[00:23:56] and enhance companies' house verification rules, which we have spoken about in recent weeks on this podcast as well. The updates are essential for improving the quality of financial reporting, but they also mean businesses may have to upgrade their reporting systems. The Taxonomies project aims to create clearer and more streamlined digital reporting processes for companies. The FRC, HMRC, company sales and industry players

[00:24:26] are all collaborating on the initiative with the aim to reduce accounting complexity and costs while making the processes more efficient. So for accountants specifically, it's crucial to start preparing for this change. And what the FRC has said is that it is important to monitor the guidance that is provided by the FRC, engage with consultations

[00:24:52] and different groups that are involved in those consultations to ensure your firm's voice is heard and to assess your current digital tools to ensure that they meet the new requirements. And with the sorts of Brexit-related changes and higher company specials now in play, businesses should expect streamlined filings, but that doesn't mean it will all be smooth sailing. So it's important to keep an eye on evolving updates as the landscape is set to change fairly dramatically.

[00:25:22] So stay ahead of the curve and start evaluating your digital compliance readiness now because these changes will come faster than we think. Although having said that, I think that's a very long overdue given the fact that we have spoken about the need for better stringent monitoring around the businesses, around digital verification, etc. in the last one year alone.

[00:25:48] So if you haven't already, get yourself into the monitor mode and keep an eye on anything that comes from the FRC on this to ensure that you are remaining compliant. Interesting. Well, yeah, I think we're going to see more and more digital filing. They're pushing quite clearly for e-invoicing. Everything is going to be linked and all data is going to sync. That's exactly how it always works with the government and the HMRC.

[00:26:16] So I've got high hopes that this is all going to work swimmingly. But something that has actually, I think, grown significantly in the more recent past is we've talked a lot about cloud adoption, cloud accounting adoption through accountants leading that. And HMRC, I'll try that again. And Waters Cluer have carried out a survey of their clients and contacts to see, well, actually how many accountants are using cloud

[00:26:45] for some or all of their workflows. And I think it's fascinating, but only 13% of the market are not using cloud accounting tools in some way. Now that's hugely small. I should flag that an additional 6% are still just doing everything on spreadsheets and manual processes. But ignoring that tiny subset of people that are still working with quills, we've got a huge 81% of businesses that are using cloud for all or some of their workflows.

[00:27:15] And for all of it, where they're using SaaS products for everything, it's an amazing 47%. I'm not sure I can even believe that statistic. That doesn't feel right given how many areas of, I guess, an accountant's suite still struggle to be filled with native cloud systems like tax preparation. There are just not that many good tax filing softwares out there in the market

[00:27:42] to allow accountants to do that in a cloud native piece of software. So I tend to find that actually a lot of systems have moved into cloud. But I do wonder if this is slightly overstated and where actually, where they're saying that they're fully cloud, maybe there's some elements that are still being done manually. Who knows? But the fact is we've gone from where forever there's been a touted,

[00:28:08] we're about 50% adoption of cloud to now 81% of businesses or accounting firms are seeing that they've got a huge volume of their clients and themselves using cloud native systems. And I think that's a huge step forward. MTD has forced this and we have jumped in and grabbed it with both hands and seen the benefits and moved forward. And one of the biggest risks that was highlighted moving to cloud still is enhanced risk of cyber attacks.

[00:28:38] Whereas actually, if you see most firms that are using desktop or hosted solutions, that's the ones that get the attacks at the moment, because those hosted platforms where multiple clients are in one server suite and they've just got a barrier around the edge, it's really easy to penetrate and it's really easy to financially threaten lots of businesses at the same time. And you see a lot of this going on compared to the cloud native systems. So if you've still got that concern about using cloud native,

[00:29:04] it is fundamentally more secure than if you are hosting desktop traditional systems. There's a few other stats I want to pick up on. One is there's a few things that businesses want to see more of. And the number one thing is real time data syncing with other financial systems. So that whole suite, bringing everything together, taking from your CRM into your operational system, such as practice management into your finance system. That is the key driver with two thirds of firms looking or seeking this to be developed.

[00:29:34] And then, as you'd expect, nearly 50% of firms want AI to automate a lot of mundane tasks, such as tax preparation. So if we can automate a lot of that, we're going to see a huge drive, huge influx of people to adopt more modern cloud native systems. And I think the UK is ready for it. I think we are, as a profession, now comfortable with working on SaaS products. We're just waiting for them to bring out some more enhanced features,

[00:30:03] another leap forward. And I do see this kind of realm of AI-powered systems that we think will come towards the back end of this year with AI agents powering those. Yeah, I think they're going to make a big change. We're going to see a big adoption in 2026 and beyond. It's interesting that you pointed on the fact that those that use, say, for example, on-premise solutions, their perception of what is a security risk and that being a resistance to them moving to cloud.

[00:30:33] Can I interrogate that for a moment and just ask whether you believe that also it's down to a lack of familiarity with the cloud tech stack and also with some of it is down to perceived cost and what's cheaper for how to run a firm? Because I think that, to me, is never really spoken about enough when it comes to accountants,

[00:30:59] is how they perceive the cost of all of these different softwares in their overall commercial model. Because I think that is a massive barrier to those converting to cloud and actually doing the research to then understand what is the optimal tech stack. And you've probably seen that, Ryan, in your own experience as someone that's worked in large practice or mid-tier firm, moving to something that you've then had to work with others

[00:31:27] who have had to make those steps to transform their digital tech stack. So how much do you think that really features into the real reasons why people don't move from on-premise? I think the unknown is quite critical here. And I think from a security perspective, a lot of it is we're so comfortable in understanding the fundamentals of have your tech, build a wall around it. It's tribe syndrome, right? We're used to knowing what a wall looks like and how it works and how big your wall is kind of is how strong you are.

[00:31:55] Whereas the way cloud native systems work, you're kind of outsourcing that wall. You know, that's now handled by the software provider. You've got no control over that whatsoever. And your security comes down to actually managing your tribe. So making sure the doors are locked, making sure the passwords are secure. And this is something that is a complete mind shift and where people, I think, are just unaware of it. And with, I guess, greater education, should feel a lot more comfortable using cloud native systems. From a cost perspective,

[00:32:25] what I tend to find is the cost of utilizing cloud systems is actually a little bit more than if you're using your traditional tech stack. You're getting so much more functionality that the automation it brings can significantly reduce your people cost. So you're just changing that balance. You're increasing your tech costs, reducing your people cost. But the concern about this is that if you're not growing, then what do you do with your people? Like, what happens in that interim period? You need an investment period where you've brought in new tech now.

[00:32:54] You've got used to it, but we haven't quite brought in enough work to cover that additional cost without hiring people. So there's a challenge to it and timing is critical. So whenever you do this, you need to identify where you want to go and then build out the plan to deliver it effectively so that you do make that kind of return investment quickly. And that's what an effective digital transformation partner will do. They'll map out where you are, they'll map out where you need to go and the steps to go there and what that new world will look like. If you're not doing that, you've not got a partner that does that,

[00:33:24] you need to talk to one that does. And that brings another episode of the Digitals in a Cool podcast to a close. If this is the first engagement you've had with us, please be aware that you can catch us in other mediums. We also have a newsletter. We have a LinkedIn page which posts news as it comes out and commentary as well as a live show every Thursday morning. We'll pick the probably most interesting news topic and dive into that with someone that knows quite a lot more about it than we do

[00:33:53] and ask them questions of which you can too. If you join the show, ask a question. We'll provide an answer during that show. We also have other things such as the automation station at Accountex, which hopefully you came across and met us at, and there'll be some other things that we release over the course of the year. Thank you so much for listening. If you've got any thoughts, comments, or just reviews of how we're doing, please drop us a message. We'd love to hear from you.