Fintech Fraud - Too Fast, Too Furious || PLUS App News and Employment Hero

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to another episode of Digi-Tools In Accrual World.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm joined today with my co-host Ryan Pearcy on John Toon.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You are joining us at a time where we are reflecting on AML practices across the industry

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're going to cover some app news, an array of app news from the best accounting tech

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that we have spotted in the landscape for the last couple of weeks.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We've had some updates.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: If you've never joined us before, you can of course listen to the back catalog of episodes

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: that we've accumulated or you can subscribe to our YouTube channel.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a number of shorts that we're publishing where you can catch the snippets of different

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00]: features and interviews that we've covered over the past three years that we've been

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in operation almost three years.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Before we go into today's app news, I will throw it to my co-host just to see and

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: check in on how they're doing.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Ryan, how are you this week?

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I am good.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm very warm.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Summer has actually come and kind of hit at least the south.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_04]: John's probably still freezing wearing multiple layers up north but down south it's very

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_04]: warm especially where I record which is a bit of a hot box.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'll try and ensure I keep my clothes on for the recording more for your sake,

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Indi than anyone else.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I am not wearing that round because to be honest the colour of you is starting

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to blend into one giant colour of orange and red.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful pastel, not pastel tones was it?

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the boiling sun of some kind.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And like you said joined by John Tune from the north who is ever like waiting for the

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: what is it?

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Winter is coming right?

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still, yeah well, the third ice age up here so I'm just waiting for the glassy

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: that's slowly moving past the window here to finally melt.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: One day would be out foraging for wild mushrooms or something and they're not too distant future.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny John.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually like, I don't know what people think about me but it shows like a lot about maybe

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_00]: the friends and what they do think about me.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Two of my presents this year were one was how to grow my own mushrooms not the adventurous

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: sort just actually the ones that you can eat.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And then another one was a foraging and cooking course.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Very good.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds very cool.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there a lot of places to forage where you live?

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I've never been.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on, you can forage in your back garden.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: He never been to the country side.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds too true.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if I've ever been like that.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: One day I found potatoes there and I honestly thought they were more fruity like the one

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: It does back up the story of Cretan over time of you having the biggest garden in the

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_04]: whole of the area.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Just you've got like a whole like party bunker down there at the end.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_04]: You've got a vegetable garden now.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I do.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I found potatoes, I found some sort of tomato plant and one time I found raspberries in

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: the one pot which was lovely and blackberries and they were nice.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I ate those and that's it.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I still haven't gone into the bunker.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I spoke to John about it earlier and I said I don't do it.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I just look at it from afar and say people come around and say,

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: whoa can I go in there?

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, knock your boots, you know show your boots, knock yourself out but as soon

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: as you've got in leave because I just don't want your leg includes me.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Your aura, yeah.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Intuit have announced that they're laying off 1800 employees as a consequence

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: of the strategic shift towards AI and trying to develop that across their platform

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but I think you know, while this is incredibly bad news for those employees

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think it represents around about 10% of their global workforce

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: is that there's been some horrific stories around this in so far as I think

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_02]: something like a thousand and 50 of the employees would basically deemed to have

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: not met their requirements of their internal review process

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and so they were effectively just being given the heave-ho

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and ironically they're also then going to be recruiting almost an equivalent number

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_02]: of people who have expertise in AI whether it's engineering, development etc.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I think this is not gone down particularly well because number one,

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: an organization like Intuit can surely help to kind of like repurpose and retrain

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: some of those staff to maybe take on some of those roles.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And number two is like, I think the news of this has just not gone down

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: particularly well at all, particularly in the US market where I guess they'll

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: have the biggest impact from a numbers point of view.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess that just reflects US employment policy as well, you know in general.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Is this beginning of the machine uprising John?

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_04]: The machines are taking our jobs?

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, maybe. Although the irony is that like I said they're getting renovated

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and people are about to recruit 800 people, that's the plan at least.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: They said it's not about saving money which I guess is probably right

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: because if they're going to be employing people with AI skills

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: they will attract a premium package so it's going to cost them more money.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I just don't understand why an organization like Intuit can't

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: at least say to the 450 people or no sorry the 650 people

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that managed to pass the assessments and grades to potentially retrain them.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just a different animal now.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's made so many acquisitions over the last two years

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that you inevitably have a workforce that is so mixed in skill level

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and technology has improved over the last two years dramatically

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_00]: with the number of acquisitions that we're talking about

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: when you look back over their two year history.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of those probably have roles that no longer fit the bill

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: when you look at synergies across the group.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So it seems fairly logical for them to make that level of cuts or redundancies.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Rumour has it that DEXT is also making a series of redundancies

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: or has at least made those over the last few weeks as well.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, an incredible success story who is implementing

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and DEXT have been implementing new technology over the past year

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and they've made a lot of gains in that space.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll keep our eyes peeled on this one.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: We know of a few people that have already exited the business

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in prominent roles and I guess we will see how that comes through the wash on DEXT.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think the infamous Glenn Foster who has been on our podcast has moved on.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, we wish him well in wherever he is now.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I've got something from DEXT that is not regarding redundancies

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_04]: but about new developments and this is something that keeps coming

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess fast and furious from them.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You've got to recognise the pining nature of their relatively new CTO.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So at the end of June, early July they announced some of their releases

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_04]: were discussed with those in the past.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to focus on those.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_04]: What I'm going to focus on is they have stated what is coming in the near future.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: One of those being their mileage tracking functionality.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_04]: So they basically to record a trip automatically and how it go through.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess presently you have to use trip catcher and have that integrated in

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_04]: if you want to be able to log places between different, you know,

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_04]: the different geographical stops and it work out what your mileage should be.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_04]: They've got approval workflow functionality coming in maybe to try and compete

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_04]: with the releases that approval max had regarding capture that was announced at Zerocon

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and they've got supply statement extraction of verification functionality

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: which is always a feature that they lack compared to some of their competitors

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_04]: such as auto entry in the marketplace.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_04]: So hopefully they're all going to come over the summer period rather than just announcements

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and we have to wait until 2025.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And something altogether quite different actually.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Alaka Bank were named by The Times as one of the fastest growing companies

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_00]: or one of its fastest growing companies in Britain.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: In the annual list they publish of 100 companies across the UK.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So the annual growth rate is showing us around 537%.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is something that we've seen tracked over the previous year Alaka have won

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: an array of awards across a number of different industries

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of lending and asset backed lending, commercial brokerage

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: or different types of awards in that space.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So they have done yet another clean sweep of awards

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and in particular with The Times it seems like they've got the right kind of secret source

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: where it comes to the culture of the place and the people, the Alakans

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: who again seem to be on a mission to fast track themselves towards IPO

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: or certainly that's the way it sort of seems like they're going

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's a bank that has built itself a handsome enough customer base

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: off the back of a series of different known books.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that there's a few others that are upcoming in this space

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that are trying to do a similar thing and received banking licenses recently.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So Alaka has obviously had the jump

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and they've been making significant gains in particular with the accountants

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: in our space as well so well done to them.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good on them.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And they've got an amazing brand with the orange hat and briefcase guy

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_04]: speaking of orange hats.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Now if you are looking at this little video now

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm pointing at the one in my background.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Speaking of briefcase that is a recent announcement

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_04]: from coming trying to compete against Genesis

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_04]: who are I guess probably the biggest name recently at the events

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_04]: such as digital accounts you show where they completely stacked out

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_04]: their demonstration of what their software could be

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_04]: they've got a lot of buzz and briefcases now launched

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_04]: basically selling the same thing.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it has fully hit the market

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a pre launch but they are contacting a lot of accountants

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I know they've contacted us at Scrumbland saying about what the system can do

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_04]: key features being automated data entry

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_04]: so the AR model is extracting information directly from the receipts and voices

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean you don't have to type anything similar to what's already in the marketplace

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_04]: in terms of categorization, looking at the advanced machine learning algorithms

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_04]: to select where the invoices should go

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_04]: that's probably advancing a bit beyond very similar to Genesis

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_04]: but beyond I guess the traditional ones where you have to plug a code in first

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_04]: and then they will remember that and copy it

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_04]: this is actually trying to assign what it is based on the nature of the transaction

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_04]: it's also talking about automatic bank reconciliation

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_04]: based on the nature of the transaction

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_04]: so I'm not entirely sure if you're going to have bank transactions in there

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_04]: with the invoice capture

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_04]: or whether it's going to try and pull that and push it marked as paid

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_04]: based on what it's seeing from a bank feed

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_04]: as it's not fully launched it's probably going to have to wait to find out

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess a lot of these products are potentially going to disrupt

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: the likes of Dex that we just talked about

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and others in the market in terms of maybe offering a new way of dealing with

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_02]: bookkeeping transactions, accounts payable

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: all that kind of stuff

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess leading on from there I've got some other news from another product

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: that's launched in the market trying to disrupt the bookkeeping space

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Invo have raised £4 million

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've been fairly sort of

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_02]: in the dark for a while and it's just launched into the market to try and offer a service

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: both to accountants and to SMEs Direct

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: to try and help with that bookkeeping side

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and they reckon that they can reduce costs by 40%

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and not just 40% of UK costs but 40% of offshore bookkeeping costs

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's quite a stat if they can pull that off

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: The platform from what I've seen looks reasonably slick

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: difficult to say in terms of how it actually works because I haven't tried it out

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but it allows you to track the status of bookkeeping month by month

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and gives you an indication of whether there are items missing

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: or if the bookkeeping is incomplete for a particular month

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and that looks across the whole gamut of purchases, sales, bank reconciliation etc

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and it also provides some snapshot information around performance

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and other bits and pieces

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: as well as the usual stuff that you would expect like elements of OCR and being able to assign tasks

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: whether this is going to be hugely disruptive

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_02]: difficult to say, the customers they see appear to have on the website are relatively small firms

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and small practices

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: They only integrate with Xero at the moment

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: they're looking to integrate with QuickBooks and they're not too distant future

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02]: but I guess it's one to watch

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and maybe to see how they break into the market and challenge some of the others

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Coen has launched its practice proposal and billing tools

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: they have designed the software to automate engagement letters

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: quote and billing and payment processes

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The founders have specifically targeted those in the small accounting and bookkeeping space

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and this is obviously a space that has been a little bit quiet

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: for the last few months

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: because most of those that were in this space have been acquired

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: The platform offers two-way integration with accounting software such as QuickBooks Online, Xero and Zoho Books

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and any firm can bring their existing payment gateway integration from Stripe

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_00]: or go cardless into the software to streamline payments

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: There's also things like customizable engagement letters

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you need to pay a little bit extra if you want to remove the Coen logo from the emails

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: where the pricing starts around £6.41 a month per user for the essential plan

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and that has unlimited clients, unlimited proposals and templates

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and then if you want to automate invoicing, automate payment collections

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: anything in the sales pipeline and client reminder features

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: then you need to pay £8.83 a month per user

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: They've also taken the time and care to integrate with several anti-money laundering solutions

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: so that you can make sure that that's within your workflow as well

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's also client management capabilities in the same way that you would have a CRM system

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Coen has entered the market at a somewhat different time

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_00]: given that we've seen some announcements yet to come to fruition

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: with Pixie in the marketplace for force

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and we had an interview with Pixie in the last couple of podcasts with the lovely John too

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, it is an unusual type of practice management software

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and we've obviously seen that there have been some changes afoot with Ignition

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and we've not really heard much more from some of the other softwares that were acquired

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: like Go Proposal and Accountancy Manager

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and then recently we've heard a lot more from a client-engager in the space

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: who seem to be picking up some steam

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, plus the likes of FYI that have recently started to move into this space

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_04]: from document management

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm intrigued at where Coen's going to place themselves

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: they've definitely got about this the right way

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_04]: they've been involved in the earlier doctors

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_04]: they've been asking a lot of questions of the accountants

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_04]: you know the I guess would be early adopters or pioneers of new tech

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: so I think they've got a good chance

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_04]: they've got a chance to make this big success

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_04]: timing is everything isn't it?

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I've got something from FreeAgent

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_04]: they have launched an integrations directory

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: otherwise known as a marketplace

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_04]: to list all of their integrations

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_04]: so that you can pick and choose

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_04]: there's a few that you can actually integrate directly from the directory

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_04]: such as Amazon, Go, Carlos and Shopify

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_04]: the launch comes with I believe 60 integrations listed

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_04]: categorized by those their accounts and tax filing

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_04]: banking and bank feeds

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_04]: although that's heavily dominated by NatWest

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_04]: as you'd expect

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and then you've got like some carbon management

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_04]: credit control CRM stuff

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and the normal things you'd expect such as data entry

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: and reporting and forecasting

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_04]: so it's quite a plethora of integrations out there

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_04]: obviously it's nowhere near the more than 1200

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_04]: that sit on the zero app store

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_04]: but you could argue that that's become so big now

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_04]: it's lost its value

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_04]: definitely something that is harder to navigate

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_04]: with so much choice

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_04]: so in fact they've got smaller selection

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe that will play a benefit for FreeAgent

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_04]: and they can select pick and choose

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_04]: what works well with their platform

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a bumper update from Xero

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: because they released a ton of stuff earlier in the month

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and so this is going to take me a little while to battle through

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: but they have released a whole bunch of things

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_02]: to the mobile app

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and one of the nice neat features

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: which I've actually used as well recently

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is the ability to be able to void or delete invoices

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: from the mobile app

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: so previously you could only do that from the browser

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: if you wanted to use that functionality

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: they've also improved the way that you can

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: change the customization about getting paid

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: so you can toggle on and off different payment providers

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit easier

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: again used to have to sort of like dive into the settings

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to kind of switch some of those things on and off

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so this made it a little bit quicker to do

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and another quite neat feature which I used to find quite painful

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: is like if you had notes in various parts of the report template

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: so if you had empty blocks of notes

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: which weren't being used

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: they would just be present in the report format

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: before you had to go through and kind of tailor them all out

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: so now you can just remove that automatically

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: as a consequence of this update

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: which is a great idea

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the quite neat ideas as well

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: is the ability to edit and adjust items

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: in the product or services list

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: from that page so when you're looking at it

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: you no longer have to click through into an item

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to make adjustments

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you can actually hit the three button

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: what do they call it?

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: the burger menu is the right phrase

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: the three dots on the right hand side

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and you've got the ability to make those changes there

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and then also

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and this will be an interesting one

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: because the new invoicing that was rolled out

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: it was incredibly contentious

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_02]: because there were a lot of capabilities

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in the old invoicing that weren't there

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and they've now rolled some of those

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: into the new version

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_02]: so things like more detailed audit trail

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: also the ability to send an invoice

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: to a contact group

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: so you weren't able to do that with new invoicing

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: so you had to send invoices

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to multiple entities

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: within the same group at a time

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: which was a pain

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and the ability to copy an invoice

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and the contact over to another draft invoice

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_02]: again a time saving feature

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that was the old invoicing style

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and not the new one

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and then they've also added a couple of new little features

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of being able to see things side by side

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: so you've got a little bit of a closer view

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: of things and you can also

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: CC and BCC new people into that

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and then some UK specific

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: things

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: we have the ability

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: to update some of the chart

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: of accounts for specific R&D

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: schemes which are relevant to

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: UK companies

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think we covered this before but

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: you can change leave periods in zero payroll

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and you can also

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: make the

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: onboarding of new payroll into zero a little bit easier

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: by entering some of the data

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit more easily from an FPS

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: rather than manually which is what you had to do before

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Well no one's going to need to go on a zero update

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_04]: now John because you have gone

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_04]: you've managed to cover everything

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_04]: in about what three minutes

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you managed to do that

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: and so very impressive

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And from Brightpay we have an Employee Self Service

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: request now available in their cloud product

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: so you've got the Brightpay Managers Portal

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: where you can handle

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: requests from employees for different forms

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: of leave

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: it's fairly

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_00]: straightforward in terms of the functionality

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're a manager

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: then you can

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: grant leave, you can have an exchange

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: with your employee

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_00]: for additional information on

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: leave requests and you've also

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: got a dashboard

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you can see all the stars, the calendar, the requests

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: again for the employees

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you have a section that you

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: can request

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: for the different types of leave

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and go into the history

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can change things like

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: your address and images and contact details

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: etc so it's fairly straightforward

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's a great little announcement

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's a good addition to what they're already

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: doing in the Brightpay Cloud platform

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you were familiar with Brightpay

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Kinect essentially

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_04]: this is very similar functionality

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_04]: but allows

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_04]: employees and managers to make

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_04]: comments directly inside it so if you're making a request

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_04]: you can add a comment and the manager can reply

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_04]: saying no way, you get that leave or

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_04]: yes it's brilliant, you deserve a rest

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_04]: you've been working so hard

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_04]: the weird thing that it's going to do is trigger an email

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_04]: notification

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_04]: going out which I guess if you're trying to encourage people

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_04]: to interact in the portal

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_04]: that is

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_04]: going back to those that are more traditional

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_04]: and don't log in the portal all the time

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: but need to know and follow a link to

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: respond. One of the other things that we

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: picked up as well is that

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_02]: a business called

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: ADSUM who are

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: a fintech VAT refund specialist

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: they have developed a product

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: called OpenTax

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: which they think is going to be

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: appealing to

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: agents in particular to help them

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: navigate the horrible mess that

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: has HMRC systems

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: particularly when it comes to trying to get

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: information through the agent service

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: accounts, the various agent accounts

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that we have and also the fact

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that quite often, particularly

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: around things like personal taxes is that

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: you can't see in the

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: agent services account or equivalent

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: what sort of the breakdown of

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: a particular client's liabilities are in the same

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: way that you come through their own

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: personal login and so

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: they've done some research which suggested

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: that 58%

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: of agents occasionally sign into their client's

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: online accounts. I can't believe

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: it's only occasional, I'd love to know

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: what their definition of that is with 16%

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: doing so frequently and

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: basically highlighting the fact that

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a real challenge

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_02]: so they brought out

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: this new feature

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: this dashboard effectively that

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: allows you to connect in currently

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to the VAT part

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: of HMRC but they're intending

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: to connect to other taxes and

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: it will allow you to surface more information.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I must admit from what

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen of the few screenshots and things

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't say

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: that what they've built so far

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_02]: is that much different from what

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: the likes of Xero have got

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: with the VAT page in Xero HQ

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: because it shows

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: basically a list of clients, the

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_02]: VAT return due dates and submission dates

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: the VAT amounts that were due

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: or not and whether or not it's been paid

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I think

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: this is a bit of a work in progress and I think

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe there will be more value when they start to add some of the taxes to this

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're interested in using this you can reach out to the team

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: it's portal

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: at adsum-works.com

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to get involved in the beta

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: let's see if it fixes

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: the problems because I don't think HMRC are going to

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: make their access

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: easier at any point soon.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: They basically saying that

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_04]: we from their platform

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_04]: be able to connect to the agent's service account

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_04]: and bring down information, we'll be able to invite our clients

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_04]: in to connect from their side

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and bring down information so we are to

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_04]: lay out over stuff that we can see

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_04]: with what they can see to create a more holistic view

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_04]: is that essentially what the system

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_04]: is doing?

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what they're trying to do but it's not

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's not very clear in the press release

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_02]: how they're manifesting this

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of clearly as an agent

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: we can connect to our

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: accounts and pull up information but I'm assuming

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that they must also need

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: access to clients

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: own

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: HMRC accounts

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: or gulf.uk gateway accounts

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to do the same

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm not quite sure how you

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: facilitate that, how you do that

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and how you manage the security protocols

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and everything else so

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's unclear, I don't know the answer to your question

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: basically.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah because I think if that is what

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_04]: they're doing, it is solving a big problem

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_04]: but I am very nervous about the security

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_04]: angle of that and I would want

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: to be very careful about how I'd trial that

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_04]: with some clients before

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_04]: he's pushing it to everyone to make sure

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: that you know the data

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_04]: that is being surfaced, the client has a

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: lot of control over turning off

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_04]: rather than just connecting once

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_04]: we can see it forever because clients move on

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_04]: and they forget and so you'll be

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_04]: sharing information with your old account

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and you wouldn't necessarily be wanting to do it.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_04]: We are back with Kevin Fitzgerald from

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Employment Hero to talk about

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_04]: well, their HR

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: offering. What I'd like to ask Kevin

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_04]: straight off the bat is

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_04]: is the integration that

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_04]: all in one through system

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_04]: from when you're on board

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_04]: a staff member managing their HR

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_04]: experience doing their payroll

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_04]: through to pushing the information into the

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_04]: finance system or to

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_04]: to HMRC

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_04]: is that your USP, is that your biggest

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_04]: differentiator, is that just what you now look

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_04]: at as the core of the product?

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah and it is and it has been

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and you can see

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_03]: in the market like people are fast following

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_03]: though so like we got to keep on our toes

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and actually think about what else we

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_03]: can bring to SMEs

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and we're seeing that now

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_03]: from the perspective of businesses

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_03]: internally. They're on top

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_03]: of I guess the

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_03]: structure of like their HR

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_03]: strategy internally and that could be

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_03]: something like people on performance management

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and are onboarding

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_03]: or recruitment like they can actually

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_03]: get the data like

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_03]: pretty quickly as to where they stand

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and bring that together

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_03]: with the payroll side which is

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_03]: very much from my eyes the way I say it is

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that's the compliance perspective

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and make sure you know people are

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_03]: paid accurately and pensions are paid

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: properly and really understand

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and like all the costs in the business

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_03]: and able to use the

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: payroll engine to run reports

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_03]: to give you information to advise

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: we're seeing that change with HR professionals

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_03]: as well

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_03]: really starting to take a lead role and

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_03]: even a small thing that I keep a track of

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_03]: is the trend of

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_03]: the title that

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_03]: HR professionals have

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_03]: you know

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_03]: you can see people and culture leader

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_03]: has popped up over the last 10 years

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: like that kind of dictates a little bit of

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_03]: well this is the type of business we are

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and they are likely to use

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: best in class technology

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_04]: you talked about ahead of people and culture

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_04]: we're starting to see that in the accounting sector

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_04]: as well as other sectors out there

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_04]: but those very mechanical industries

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_04]: probably don't benefit

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_04]: as much from the employee engagement

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_04]: you're not trying to get as much out of your employees

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: which may be

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_04]: me dumbing it down but that's my

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_04]: experience of working in the space

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_04]: but one thing that this does allow

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_04]: is that as accountants

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_04]: we can now look to offer HR

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: advisory

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_04]: if we're using a tool such as Employment Hero

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_04]: the change from our side will be

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_04]: that we are through HR

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_04]: advising I guess looking

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_04]: to provide more of an experience to some extent

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_04]: support but with experience whereas

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_04]: payroll is very much compliant so

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_04]: there'll be separate teams so

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_04]: where accountants or HR professionals

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_04]: are looking at this is it that

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_04]: you have two separate teams delivering this

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_04]: you have a payroll compliance team and a HR

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_04]: advisory team it is a

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_03]: totally different skill but a totally

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: different conversation

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I think

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_03]: we start to blend down

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_03]: we start to come up with payroll advisory

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: which is another

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: step and I don't want to go there

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: in this conversation but

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I do think

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_03]: as clients start

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_03]: to lift their head up and think about the people

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_03]: strategy in their business

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I do think that's a new

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_03]: conversation

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that they're starting to have

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's where we're seeing the transition

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_03]: to people and culture managers and leaders

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and the change in dynamics over

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_03]: what that department actually does

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the client

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: HR advisory for me

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03]: can mean many different things

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and in its basic

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_03]: format like we've got a tool

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: called Hero AI

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_03]: which you can have a chat to

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_03]: like you can log into employment here

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and it will scan all of your policies

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's very very basic

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_03]: in terms of comparison against HR advisory

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_03]: so some clients are looking for basic tools

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_03]: like that others are looking for

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_03]: you know sit down with a professional

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_03]: like an accountant or a HR advisor

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and say hey where do I

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_03]: where do I go from here like you know

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I've got 50 people we've added

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: 15 in the last you know 10 months

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I've invested a lot

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_03]: in you know L&D or professional

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: development or

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_03]: we've got some exposure in this department

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_03]: like how do I deal with it or

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a change in government and what happens

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: if there's a change to the

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_03]: some of the rulings that impacts

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm SMAs and I think that would be a big

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: trigger point for I guess

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: people looking for HR advisory but

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I do think Ryan that there will be

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_03]: it's two separate departments

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah a lot of

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_04]: what accounts have been doing recently is looking inward

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and going okay I've got these

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_04]: these team members that are

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I just guess costs at the moment right

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_04]: so our IT team the HR

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_04]: team where there's just a cost

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_04]: of the business how can we generate some income

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_04]: from that and similar with

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_04]: what I guess people been doing with creating

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_04]: digital transformation teams have been taking these

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_04]: individuals that had to support their cloud

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_04]: products and they're going okay generate

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_04]: some income by advising clients

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess the takeaway from this is that you can start

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_04]: to do that inside your firm

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_04]: if you've got a tool like an employment hero

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: because you can bring in

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_04]: your HR team especially if you're using it internally

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_04]: and then advise your clients

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_04]: taking that forward the critical thing

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_04]: for me is that if you've got the right tool

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_04]: in place enables you to deliver

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_04]: these services and it's something

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_04]: that's yeah employment hero enabled

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to say how was the

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_04]: the aura lady or

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_04]: man oh

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_04]: oh my god thing

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you have no idea how

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: many people absolutely

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: loved it you just

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_00]: cannot believe how many people

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: came up to me and said it was the best

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: thing they've done it was such a talking

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: point and I think that was the whole

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: print right is that people were showing each other

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: their auras they got

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: talking and they were like surely you can't

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_04]: see your aura that's the whole point of it

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_04]: why you can if you go if you go

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_04]: far enough north you can see Aurora

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah yeah

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_00]: hey guys you are invited to my birthday

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: but John forgot

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and Ryan you couldn't make it for good reason

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: but you know exactly

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't want to know

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: about your aura don't come near me

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: do you need to stand with the

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: sun towards your back is that how you see

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: your aura or someone else sees it

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: had a device I told you

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: it was really cool

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: honestly everybody

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody had a device

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_02]: how did you fight

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: made by NASA

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: was it like a ghostbusters thing

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: it was John

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and everyone loved it

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and you're not gonna cross the streams

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you're gonna have your aura looked

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Indy what colour was your aura

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: my aura that's a really good question

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: my aura was

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of indigos

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of indigos

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of blues

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: some really dark purples

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and then there was like

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_00]: just a bit that was more above my head

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_00]: was all kind of like white

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Sianas was totally different

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: from mine

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we had an aura where we

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_00]: did a picture together and that was

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: so beautiful

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_04]: do the colours mean certain things

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_04]: so what does the purple

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_04]: blue colours mean

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_00]: oh my god she said I was the smartest person

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: she'd ever met

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I think she must be right guys

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I think she must be right

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: so she's a suck up

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_04]: that's what makes it good

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_00]: stop

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you just can't

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: keep on dismissing it until you've done it

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and then we can talk on an open even playing field

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but you can't just dismiss it

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: so you know when she took a picture

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: of your aura did she just have like

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: one of those little glass pyramid things

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that you use for splitting lines

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you mean a prism

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: a prism yeah

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I've tried to talk science

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: she's just had a prism in front of the camera

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: like oh look at your aura

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: it doesn't matter anyway

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you missed it

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you missed my birthday

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I did miss your birthday

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm very sorry about missing your birthday

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm sorry about not sending you a message

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: so perhaps you guys

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: caught on LinkedIn recently

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Jordan H

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: she was the founder and CEO of that

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: works which is a Shopify

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: agency Shopify plus

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: agency

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: they had

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: 36,000 stolen from their bank account

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: overnight

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: one transaction every minute for three hours

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: each for 200 pounds

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: with a virtual card from Revolute

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and even though they had two factor

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: authentication enabled

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: they said that the money

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is pending

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: in the account but Revolute pretty much said that the money has gone

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_00]: we're due to talk to Alex Falcon on this episode

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: about her experience given that recently

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: she had a

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_00]: similar fraudulent event

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: occur with her practice

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and we've also seen Tom Herbert cover

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: recently in one of

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_00]: his articles that

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00]: this is

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: a rising trend in the space

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: where we're seeing more fintechs

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and kind

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: corners perhaps on AML

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: guys just a

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: discussion point for this podcast

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: given that accountants

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of straddle

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: AML KYC KYB

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: in this kind of an area that you need to

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: both be

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_00]: aware of have your own

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_00]: processes to do with

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: but then you also have to rely

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: upon these different technologies

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_00]: that need to do their duty as well

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: social perspectives on that

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: we do have to

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_04]: get very involved from an AML perspective

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and I know of accounting firms

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_04]: that have been pulled up on this

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_04]: and had to do a lot of

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_04]: additional work

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_04]: at their own cost to rectify

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_04]: you get some poor AML practices

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_04]: or lacks of AML practices

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and I think that

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that you're right

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_04]: is created risk

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_04]: going down this route of

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: fast market

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_04]: apps that are

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_04]: in the banking

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: payment space

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: where fraud risk could be high

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_04]: trying to

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_04]: navigate that effectively

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_04]: while also developing quickly

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_04]: to compete against others in this space

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_04]: it must be a big challenge to do effectively

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess our job as

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_04]: those digital advisors

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_04]: is to keep our

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_04]: ears to the ground, keep our

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_04]: eyes open and ask the right questions

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_04]: something that has been a problem for quite a while

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_04]: is that

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_04]: accounting firms adopted tech

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_04]: while not really investigating

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_04]: security measures of those apps

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_04]: in depth and that is something that

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_04]: is now at the forefront of

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_04]: accountants minds as they are looking to bring in tech

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_04]: so if you are a developer

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_04]: make sure your security is robust

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_04]: you will be asked about it

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and is something that is

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_04]: now a lot more important to

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_04]: accounting firms through their adoption

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it is an interesting challenge

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_02]: because the FinTechs as you say

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: are there to

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: they are there to challenge the incumbent banks

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_02]: who have been around for a long time

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: have had their own issues

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: around your compliance

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_02]: with your AML

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: requirements amongst other things

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess if you're talking specifically

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: about Revolut which is where these two instances

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: that we have identified have come from

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: they are the most successful

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: FinTech

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: challenger in terms of

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: revenue and performance

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: has got to bear in mind that they are not a bank

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and they have been struggling for

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: two years if not longer to get a banking license

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is indicative of the FCA's attitude

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to them and the FCA have

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_02]: on more than one occasion highlighted the fact

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: that they have got weak controls around

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: their procedures particularly around AML

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: for all management and things like that

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and so personally

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: as an advisor

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and professionally as an advisor to our clients

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: we have never recommended Revolut for business

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to our clients

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and they can make their own choices about

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: choosing to use them but we have never suggested

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that they should go there

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: when they have asked for an alternative

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: simply because of the reputation

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and for us the reputation

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_02]: of the products that we recommend to people reflects

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: on our reputation and if we were

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: to make a recommendation

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that someone goes to a particular FinTech

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and they suffer an experience like this

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: then it always

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: invariably comes back to reflect on us

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: so yeah

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I have spoken quite openly about the fact

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: particularly Revolut but other FinTechs as well

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: are not ones

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that I would physically choose just because of highlighted weaknesses

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_02]: by the regulators

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and tillers and improvements

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that is a big issue

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think maybe touching on what Ryan was talking about

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: as well is that

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: there is this misconception amongst

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: the FinTech

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: challenges

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: they are all banks with banking

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: licenses and they are not all banks with banking licenses

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: it makes a big difference when you do suffer

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: an experience like this because the banks are

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: responsible

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: physically amongst other things to

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: reimburse you unless you have

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: definitely as a customer of the bank

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: done something fundamentally wrong

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: whereas

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: some of the challenges

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_02]: who are not banks with banking licenses

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: do minus the sidestep these roles because

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: they are not legislated for

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: in the current regulations and so

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_02]: they are not held

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_02]: to the same level of accounts

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: so that is something that is quite often forgotten.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That is a very good point

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and I guess that is a nice segue

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to our interview

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_00]: with Alex on her recent experience

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and also our

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_00]: recent experience looking at some of the

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_00]: applications in this space

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: so we would always

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: recommend that you do your own diligence as well

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but in the meantime

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: we will keep you posted on the information

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: that we have on some of the technologies

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_00]: at We're Reviewing and over

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00]: to Alex and her experience

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: on her recent

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: fraud case with Reveille.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I guess like the Reveille

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: thing was like a whole massive

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_01]: issue for me because

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I just generally thought I was talking to the fraud team

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I know there is lots of opinions about it

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but you know it is what it is

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and it wasn't good

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I am unable to recover the funds

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_01]: but one of the main things

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: about this whole tech

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is that one of the reasons

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I am unable to get my

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_01]: the money reimbursed

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: is because of a selfie verification

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: which I am unable to

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: receive any type of

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: confirmation

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_01]: or clarification or anything from

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Reveille itself

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and I deleted the app

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_01]: so I definitely 100% didn't give it

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and we are struggling to get that evidence from them

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: so that is kind of

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: quite a scary thought that

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: people can actually use

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_01]: facial recognition

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: fraudulently to access

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: areas on

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: different apps so if it can happen with

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: somebody like Reveille it is going to happen with multiple apps

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and so many people have implemented

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: facial recognition now

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and so

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: if that is an area where

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: they are saying to me I can't get the funds back

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_01]: which was like £53,000

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: then

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it is quite scary and worrying

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that technology can easily be bypassed

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and there are people out there that can hack

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that and it is getting bigger

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and more wild

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: where people can

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: bring in that

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_01]: high level

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_01]: scamming essentially

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I am struggling to get any kind of

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: funds back the financial uppersmen

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: are massively behind

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: still haven't had my case even looked at

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and I do believe

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: it is going to like £50 million

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of fraud

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_01]: it is quite

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_01]: scaling quite large

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_01]: so I don't know how

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that is going to be improved

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the things that plays into this factor is

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: there is a human element

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: aside from the technology

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of these frauds

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: are able to

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: prey on the

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_02]: trust as you mentioned

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of what you thought you were talking to

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_02]: to their fraud team

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: there wasn't a sort of anti-fraud team

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that you were talking to

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but you have been very proactive

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of getting some press coverage

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you have other things going on

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe can you touch on that

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: do you think that is enough

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: to either

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_02]: prevent apps

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_02]: from having these loopholes

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and also to

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: encourage people to be a little bit more cautious

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: loads of people don't want to share

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they are embarrassed or shamed

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_01]: it is not a nice thing to happen

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but somebody actually

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: needs to be able to share this

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and show that it does happen

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and it can happen and it will happen quite easily

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: from this I have been fortunate where

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Panorama, BBC, Ripoff Britain

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: which as well they have all been in touch

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: because I was happy to share my story

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: but it is really getting the word out there

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: stopping it from happening to other people

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: so it is awareness

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and the fact that I have shared my story

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and been proactive about it

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01]: it is making people aware

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and that is my goal

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: my goal ultimately is to say

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you have got these apps in place

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and you need to be

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: really, really careful

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because it can happen to anybody

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: people have been in touch with me

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_01]: they want to remain anonymous

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and they are talking to me about their story

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and I am talking to them about what happened to me

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: somebody has to be able to

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_01]: share that

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: look you guys need to be careful

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: because the technology

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and the cyber crime

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_01]: is quite big

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and it is going into millions

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and millions of pounds

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01]: it is not just small values

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: what are the next steps?

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you have a backstory

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to AML

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I also know you are working with AML providers

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: in the market as well

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: so you are well embedded

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of a wealth of experience

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: but also being able to

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: see what is the required standard

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02]: for our professionals

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: it is definitely a strong area

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: where we have to

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: take care of ourselves and our business

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_01]: when it comes to AML

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and we also need to make sure

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that we have the right

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: processes in place when it comes to

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: AML because we are essentially protecting

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_01]: ourselves and one of the things that happened

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to me when I first got

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: qualified was that somebody

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_01]: used my details and said I was their

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_01]: accountant and I did end up

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: going to court and I was

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty scared because I thought I was going to end up

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: in prison at that time

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: even though I had nothing to do with it

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but in the end

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_01]: those guys did actually admit

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that they were being fraudulent

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_01]: but people can use your name

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_01]: people can

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_01]: do things that you are not fully aware of

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_01]: so when I set up

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_01]: my practice it made me

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: even more compliant to make sure

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to double check

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and make sure that

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I have everything in place

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_01]: as you said

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I work with a company in the space

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_01]: who look after and take care of

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: all my AML but that is because

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I know they have got all the right

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_01]: policies and procedures in place

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_01]: being ACCA qualified

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_01]: as well

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I have the backing and support of ACCA

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01]: where they give us a rigorous

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: massive checklist that we have to follow

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and risk assessment to make sure

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that we follow the guidelines

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and we do everything we can to protect

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_01]: ourselves as accountants

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but also to make sure that

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the people that we work with are genuine

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and who they say they are

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and they have genuine business activity

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but you can't track

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: everything like we are not the police

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_01]: we are not there to police

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: everything but we have to do

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_01]: what is right for ourselves and for our clients

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah absolutely

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I really agree with you Alex

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that is one of the reasons

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00]: why we wanted to cover

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_00]: some of this subject today

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_00]: because we have worked with a lot of different app techs

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_00]: in this space

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the apps that we worked with

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_00]: although

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it seems that at least the issues have been

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_00]: resolved in the period of the last

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_00]: few weeks

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_00]: it was something on that same

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: similar vein around ID verification

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: checking and being able

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to be sure that the person

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: being associated in the company

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is actually the same person

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_00]: making the payment

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_00]: in this particular case

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: our experience was

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_00]: there was something that

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_00]: sells short of being able to

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_00]: physically check that the person

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_00]: was the person who had then made

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the payment at the point where

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_00]: you are setting up the account

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_00]: now I think that this is not

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_00]: the first time I have come across this

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_00]: given the day job

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the day job is in

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00]: banking technology and in this particular case

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_00]: we did flag this

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: as something

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: that perhaps

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00]: was not in our wheel health

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: to evaluate

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00]: but when we did check it with regulatory experts

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_00]: they did describe that the process

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_00]: was, I think this is in bird commerce

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_00]: dodgy as hell

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: which means that it's not

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_00]: quite meeting the standard

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and it puts us in a difficult position

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: as people that run this

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of podcast for app text

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: we want to make sure that the ones that we are recommending

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_00]: we have the ironclad

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_00]: standard that is required

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_00]: for AML

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm quite curious if you could then

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: as a gentleman

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_00]: describe what you're expecting

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and what sort of checks and balances

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_00]: you would expect of some of the fintech

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_00]: so you work with the apps that you work with

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_00]: to recommend that should be

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_00]: something that other shareholders check

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_00]: for as well when they're evaluating

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_00]: what tool should be

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_00]: in the app stack

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah sure I guess

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: when we look at apps and different

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_01]: we look at the regulatory side

[00:48:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and compliance side

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_01]: AML is definitely up there in one of those

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it's the same with when we do like accounts production

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and VAT and all those types

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: of things like we need to make sure

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that whichever software we go with

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_01]: are compliant and they are

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_01]: abiding by

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: company law

[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_01]: tax law, VAT law

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and everything across the board because

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_01]: essentially we are regulated

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01]: as qualified accountants

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_01]: who have a practice in certificate

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_01]: so when I look to see what that

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_01]: product actually does

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_01]: then I would want to know that they have got

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_01]: all the security measures in place

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm trusting

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_01]: in what they're doing

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_01]: as a product if they're selling AML

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: software then essentially

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm then expecting them to have

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the security in place

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that when I use that product

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that I'm using it safely

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that there's no data breach that they're

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_01]: abiding by all the laws

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that they're supposed to be abiding by

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because essentially

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_01]: when I put that data in there

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that data is supposed to be safe

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and that data is supposed to be protected

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I would

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_01]: want to know that they have got

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_01]: all of those checks in place

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_01]: for me to be able to use that product

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_01]: safely and that applies

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_01]: to multiple products because we

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_01]: as accountants, okay we have

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_01]: confidential data

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_01]: not just IDs but also

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_01]: financial information as well

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and on a number of occasions

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_01]: in the past I, my clients

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01]: do say to me what products do you use

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and is it safe and in some cases

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_01]: they've said to me we know that product isn't

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_01]: safe please do not use it so

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had to move away from it. You make a good point there Alex

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_02]: as well is like

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_02]: there's so much regulation around isn't there

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_02]: for accountants and so much

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_02]: regulation around for financial services

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_02]: businesses but I think

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that accountants

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: when they're assessing vendors

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: to use whether it's

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_02]: banking products, whether it's other accounting

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_02]: products and things I think actually we really

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_02]: struggled don't we to kind of really get to the nuts and bolts

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_02]: of what compliance requirements are there

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: are they ticking the boxes

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and from a compliance point of view

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's not just the AML

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_02]: regs but there's GDPR and data protection

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_02]: rules as a whole bunch of other things

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and you rightly mentioned that we have to

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_02]: make sure that we

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_02]: keep our client data safe and secure

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and confidential

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_02]: so I think there's a role

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_02]: for

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_02]: regulators to play a more

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_02]: proactive

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_02]: position in this and not just maybe

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_02]: people like the FCA but also ICAW

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: ACCA the regulatory bodies that we're all

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_02]: part of to provide more guidance

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_02]: but also to provide more screws near

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_02]: round things and you know you were a victim

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_02]: of revolutes as a consequence

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_02]: of what happened there and they

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_02]: very publicly struggled

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to get a banking license and it's

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_02]: very recently just been granted but I think

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_02]: there were three or four years into

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_02]: a process of applying for that

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: so in theory you would hope

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that they have got a whole bunch

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_02]: of new processes and systems

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in place to

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_02]: minimize the risk of what you went

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: through even more but also

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_02]: they will now as a bank with a banking

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_02]: license have much more

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_02]: requirement from their point of view to

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_02]: financially compensate customers which wasn't

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the position that you found yourself in

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_02]: unfortunately but

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_02]: we know that we have this two tier system

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_02]: don't we in banking in particular where you can have a banking license

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_02]: so you can have an EMI license which is

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_02]: where people like Revolut and WISE

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and others have effectively been operating

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and again I don't think many people really

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_02]: comprehend the difference do they

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah exactly and I guess

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_01]: it was a bit of a shock for me

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to see and know that Revolut were

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: on the way to getting their full

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_01]: banking license with restrictions

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's something that I'm going

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to continue

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to push my story

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_01]: because essentially

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_01]: they didn't refund it or reimburse it and they won't give the evidence

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_01]: so obviously that's really frustrated

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_01]: me

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: so

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_01]: there's going to be

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_01]: lots of situations that if people

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_01]: see or app see that

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_01]: people like Revolut can get away with it

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_01]: then they're going to do the same and so there's going to be

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_01]: more companies out there that

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_01]: are not going to be trusted or I definitely won't

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_01]: be trusting them so you know it has pushed

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_01]: me more towards using

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_01]: you know more high street banks

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_01]: again I know you have fraud

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in there but the figures

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and the stats are just not as high

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had calls

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_01]: from them

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_01]: ask you for a phrase that you've given them

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_01]: in the past so it's a little bit more secure

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess Revolut will probably do something similar

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know but I guess it's just about

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: now obviously

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm definitely way more cautious

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_01]: did a whole load of stuff within my business

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and my personal life

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to change things to make it more

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: secure and safe

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_01]: as much as possible but there's only so

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_01]: much you can do I'm still going to be at risk

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and so is everybody else and I guess

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to highlight that and

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the banks and the banking licenses

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it's

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_01]: again

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_01]: are they going to do the things

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that are going to protect us so Revolut

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_01]: had

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: they're responsible for protecting my funds

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and they didn't

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and so they got away with that I think

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you know they just

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_01]: allowed people to come in and just take it

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're just not taking responsibility

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and I guess lots of apps will

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_00]: essentially do that. Yeah I don't think you were

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_00]: alone in that experience actually there was

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_00]: another case that was

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_00]: on LinkedIn I saw

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_00]: a business owner who was defrauded

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_00]: a series of micro payments taken

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_00]: throughout the course of the evening

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_00]: a mass to again

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_00]: probably around 30,000

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in total fraud or there were there were

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people who were

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and so what I'm really curious about now

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: is obviously

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_00]: how do we evaluate

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_00]: the different

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_00]: technologies are out there what do you look

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_00]: for in some of the

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the apps within our

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_00]: space

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_00]: for what processes

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_00]: they should be adhering to

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_00]: what you would expect to hear

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_00]: or see from

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_00]: an AML perspective

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_00]: as a minimum standard my

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_00]: contribution to this is only that I

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_00]: think that there should be

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_00]: like Firmcheck have done

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_00]: a valid camera check

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_00]: that you can actually see

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_00]: or there has been eyeballs on

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_00]: to see that the person

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is the person linked to

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_00]: the account that's

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_00]: been set up.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I guess you know

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Firmcheck is a really good example of

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_01]: how AML should be done

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's why I brought that into

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_01]: my business because they've got it

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they basically got it right

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_01]: so they've got all the checks

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_01]: in there they've got the risk assessment

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_01]: they're working with

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_01]: legislation like with the accountancy

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_01]: bodies essentially to make sure

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that they've got everything in place

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I know

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_01]: when I've gone into that system

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and I've done my checks like my testing

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that person is who

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_01]: they say they are like I'll do

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I've tested it with friends etc

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and we've gone and checked the whole

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_01]: entire process to make sure that

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that person is who they say they are

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and that ID has come back through again

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_01]: so I have to then check it all

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that before I send it to my clients

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that it's going to be correct and accurate

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and I trust that information

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is going out accurately and correctly

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and that there isn't anything

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_01]: going on or any dodginess

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_01]: going on in there because again

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to protect myself as

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to protect my practice certificate

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and I have to make sure that

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have that type of

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you know I'm hiring or working

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: with the wrong people that's

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the goal is I need to work with people

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_01]: who are genuine who have a genuine

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_01]: business and if

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the AML process is telling

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_01]: me that that person is

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_01]: who they say they are I'm going to trust it

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's what I would need to look

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_01]: for in that product I'm placing

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_01]: trust in that what they're doing

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_01]: if that

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_01]: situation doesn't work

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and essentially I ended up signing a client

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_01]: up you know that

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_01]: is like a fraudulent person

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_01]: or whatever or there's like money laundering

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_01]: risk I'm ultimately

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_01]: still responsible as the director

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and as a practicing certificate owner

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_01]: so I couldn't then say oh

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: by the way I'm going to go

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to the AML partner and say it's your fault

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_01]: it's absolutely not but

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_01]: it's going to make me super stressed

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_01]: about the fact that I picked that product

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_01]: if they are not doing what they say

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_01]: that they're supposed to do. I do know Alex

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I completely agree with that and I think

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you know my

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_02]: feelings on this situation are you know

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_02]: when we talk about AML in the

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_02]: accounting landscape you know and I

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_02]: think about our you know

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_02]: obviously working a larger firm than

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you and so I have

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_02]: less accountability but different types

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_02]: of accountability you know we've got

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a money laundering reporting officer we've got a deputy

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: MLRO as well and

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I know that they are

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you personally

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_02]: at risk if we

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_02]: allow something through that is

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02]: inappropriate and then we don't report

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_02]: our suspicions of fraud and things

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and yet you know you reflect

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_02]: on that and then see you know these instances

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that we've seen with yourself and others

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you know where there seems to be no

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: personal accountability

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_02]: or no financial accountability

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_02]: for these problems and I think that's

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_02]: for me one of the things I would like to see more of is that

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you consumers of

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: products

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_02]: should not be

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_02]: financially out of pocket

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_02]: if they've got a genuine case and they have

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: been defrauded

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_02]: put in a position where they thought

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_02]: they were doing the right thing but ultimately it was

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_02]: found that you know they were being misled

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that comes down to regulators and I

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_02]: think the other thing that comes into this

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_02]: as well is that I think

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_02]: people like ACCA and ICAW

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and others need to be much more clear

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_02]: with our members in terms of

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: these are the risks

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_02]: these are the things that you're potentially exposing yourself to

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and providing more

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_02]: education around products in terms

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_02]: of being able to vet them and understand

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_02]: where the risks do lie

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_02]: because I don't think there's sufficient information

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_02]: out there for

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_02]: people who have got

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_02]: as you said as a business owner, have got

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_02]: a million and one things to worry about

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and trying to get across absolutely everything is almost impossible.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you both

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_00]: so much for your perspectives on that

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and again in view of the fact

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that this podcast

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_00]: interview was prompted

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_00]: or inspired by at least our review

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_00]: of the series of different payment

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_00]: apps that are out there

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_00]: holler to those that we found

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_00]: a really great process

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_00]: for AML

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_00]: with who are obviously

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_00]: die-hards in this space

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you know them, you love them

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the likes of Tayloruse and Nook

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_00]: that we really are pleased that there's so many

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_00]: new apps coming

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_00]: into this space that are able to then

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_00]: up the game for all of us

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and hopefully

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_00]: compliance being

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_00]: a cornerstone for

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_00]: accountants

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_00]: we will continue to make sure that we

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_00]: evaluate the different apps that we work with

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and look at this as

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_00]: something that is

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: in our wheelhouse to talk to you about.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everybody, it's been really beautiful.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_00]: for joining us on today's

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_00]: episode of Digitools

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_00]: in a Cruel World. If you haven't already done so

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: please could you

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_00]: subscribe to our YouTube channel

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: or maybe you subscribe

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to any one of the podcast channels

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_00]: that you listen to this podcast on

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: or if you haven't already done so as well

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: join our digital disruptors

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: network. There is a systems

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: advisory community, a small

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: corner of the world who are all joining together

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and learning more about the different

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: apps in this space

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_00]: we call on them and we're able

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to obviously build more

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: of a community around this

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and we want to do some bigger things for the community

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: as the year goes on. So if you're

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: curious, you're interested

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: reach out to us if you've got any feedback

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: on the podcast then

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: we always welcome feedback and the other

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: final thing is thank you to all

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: of those listeners who actually take the time to

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: inform us of their latest news

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to sometimes even inform us

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_00]: of other things that are going on in the space

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: we're always curious to find out

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: more about your experiences

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: so if you do have something

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that you think is of interest to all of the other listeners

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_00]: in the accounting tech space

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: reach out to us, you can find us on LinkedIn

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you can email us and you can go via

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: the website so any which way you like

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: we are always open

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: to your perspective

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and points of view. Thanks very much

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and we'll catch you on the next one.