Acquisitions, Banking & Canines | PLUS App News

[00:00:00] Accountants have really been left behind but also left to pick up a lot of the work.

[00:00:05] We all try our best to put our names up there, make ourselves known. It's hard because sometimes you can do something that is not well received and sometimes you do without thinking something really magic that actually you get recognised by it.

[00:00:20] I think it's really good that the FCA read my LinkedIn post and have decided to take action. At least someone has acted on that.

[00:00:30] Materia have been acquired by Thomson Reuters.

[00:00:32] SimPro have acquired Big Change.

[00:00:35] Right acquired InformDirect.

[00:00:37] AccessGroup have now bought Higher Ara, I think I'm saying that right.

[00:00:41] Nextly is a platform created by auditors for auditors.

[00:00:46] Oh yeah, can you believe that there's anything much more grey than that?

[00:00:49] Excel turned 40 this week.

[00:00:52] What I didn't realise is Excel's the same age as me.

[00:00:55] Look how much Excel has achieved in that time.

[00:00:59] Doing the Deachemorto was really great. It was not too controversial in the end.

[00:01:04] We had a lot of feedback from lots of different nominees.

[00:01:07] I think the most controversial thing was John's t-shirt.

[00:01:11] I love his t-shirt.

[00:01:13] People presume bankers look straight at the numbers, but actually I was talking to our head of the

[00:01:17] partnership management team recently and I said to him, you know, in your experience what do you look for

[00:01:21] quickly when you're looking and reviewing an application? And he instantly said, oh, it's just fine.

[00:01:27] Hello and welcome to another episode of the DigiTools and Accrual World Podcast.

[00:01:31] I'm delighted as ever to welcome you to the show.

[00:01:34] We have got a whole bunch of things going on here.

[00:01:37] So we've got FYI sponsoring this episode.

[00:01:39] Just a reminder about FYI, they are on a mission to make things as simple as possible to liberate

[00:01:45] accountants by halving the time you spend on compliance and admin with the cloud accounting

[00:01:48] application.

[00:01:49] Their software is a unique blend of online document and practice management with built-in collaboration

[00:01:54] tools and a powerful automation engine.

[00:01:56] And it's going to be a game changer for your practice and it truly is something unique.

[00:01:59] And I take it from me as someone who knows the industry inside and out.

[00:02:03] We've also got a whole bunch of stuff in terms of app news, lots of acquisitions from Thomson Reuters,

[00:02:08] Simpro and Bright, all buying tons of crazy things.

[00:02:11] And of course, we're going to take a little bit of a deep dive into thin fluences and are they being

[00:02:16] looked at closely enough?

[00:02:17] And is there an issue underlying what's going on there?

[00:02:19] And as ever, I'm here with Indian Ryan.

[00:02:22] Yeah, you mean with your app news, John too.

[00:02:25] What are you knowing?

[00:02:27] Where have you been?

[00:02:28] Who have you been speaking to?

[00:02:30] Tell us your app news, John.

[00:02:36] Okay, so I literally got this from the horse's mouth the other week because

[00:02:42] Materia have been acquired by Thomson Reuters.

[00:02:44] So for anyone that's not familiar with Materia and there's no reason why it should be,

[00:02:47] they are a US-based large language model type assistant.

[00:02:53] And they were formed literally two years ago, less than two years ago.

[00:02:58] So formed in 2022.

[00:02:59] There's a couple of people involved who've been in and around the sort of the accounting tech space

[00:03:04] before, particularly some people from MindBridge especially.

[00:03:09] And they were targeting the US market to begin with and then just starting to explore the UK market.

[00:03:15] And we were going to be one of the first firms to start working with them.

[00:03:18] And it's really about providing, you know, large language model type, co-pilot type assistance for

[00:03:26] advisory work and particularly around the sort of, you know, the research required for particular topics,

[00:03:31] whether that's tax or accounting and those kinds of things.

[00:03:33] And out of nowhere, Thomson Reuters have snapped them up.

[00:03:37] There's no detail in terms of how much they've paid and what the outcome is in terms of the

[00:03:43] longer term objective for the firm, other than we know that the founders are going to be tied in

[00:03:48] for a couple of years.

[00:03:49] And yeah, I just think this is quite fascinating because Thomson Reuters haven't done too much of

[00:03:55] late in terms of acquisitions.

[00:03:56] And then they've gone and snapped up these guys and it's part of their AI roadmap, apparently.

[00:04:01] So yeah, interesting times to see what happens here.

[00:04:05] I did speak to the founders, the material founders, and I said it would be an interesting time for them,

[00:04:10] given that Thomson Reuters have failed to deliver much in the UK.

[00:04:14] So I suspect that their foray into the UK market might be cut short for the time being.

[00:04:18] And then, yeah, I think they might be refocused back in the US or even into the legal sector,

[00:04:23] where Thomson Reuters have a big presence.

[00:04:25] That is a shame.

[00:04:27] That is a shame if it does cut AI activity in the UK, because we want to see more businesses like this

[00:04:34] penetrate in the UK market.

[00:04:35] They get acquired at the wrong strategic time.

[00:04:38] We get affected.

[00:04:40] I've got a different acquisition.

[00:04:42] It's the news of acquisitions today.

[00:04:45] So SimPro have acquired big change.

[00:04:48] If you've worked in the trade or job management sector in anything digital transformation related,

[00:04:54] you'd know of both SimPro and big change.

[00:04:57] They usually came up against each other when you're looking at software for,

[00:05:01] yeah, I'd say kind of medium sized trade.

[00:05:06] Yeah, trade related businesses in the UK.

[00:05:09] Now SimPro bigger business, they have others in this space, such as Aeroflow and ClockShark.

[00:05:17] And now they've added big change as well.

[00:05:20] So my concern is that big change were probably competitive there.

[00:05:24] So it's great in the fact that they've now removed a competitor.

[00:05:27] But I don't know about the longevity of both products, because they're very similar.

[00:05:31] So I would assume that one would merge into the other.

[00:05:34] Maybe they'll be kept separate.

[00:05:36] Maybe they'll try and enhance or refine each one, because they've kept Aeroflow going,

[00:05:42] because Aeroflow has got a very specific market segment.

[00:05:46] It penetrates and SimPro has looked at it bigger than that.

[00:05:49] But big change, I know, is used by some very big businesses in the UK as well.

[00:05:53] So I'm unsure on how these two will play together.

[00:05:57] There's no, I guess for now, in their release statement, they said,

[00:06:01] for now, the two systems will exist separately.

[00:06:04] They'll be supported.

[00:06:05] But we'll have to see what happens over time.

[00:06:08] For me, it, I mean, it's not going to change anything short term, but it will make me think

[00:06:12] on do I recommend into big change or SimPro for any clients that are looking for new cloud-based

[00:06:17] trade management software?

[00:06:18] You are right, Ryan.

[00:06:20] It is the app news that is all about acquisition, with another one that came from Bright this

[00:06:26] week, who acquired InformDirect to boost their company secretarial offering.

[00:06:32] Bright, who has also previously acquired Accountancy Manager and BTC software,

[00:06:38] and has since upgraded those to BrightTax and Bright Manager, as well as MyWork papers

[00:06:44] in its roster of products.

[00:06:45] So Cosec is an interesting acquisition because obviously it has a natural synergy and fit with

[00:06:51] some of the accounts production.

[00:06:53] And the fact that there has been such changes that are coming down the track when it comes

[00:07:01] to the management of companies and filing landscape in general for those companies,

[00:07:08] companies so that there's more work that needs to be done and linked at the point where you

[00:07:13] are able to provide a frictionless or a seamless experience in doing something that's like perhaps

[00:07:19] one side of the Cosec responsibility.

[00:07:22] And then also the tax return or the set of accounts that need to then be linked to

[00:07:27] an update that happens in companies house.

[00:07:29] So Bright had launched their own Cosec back in 2023.

[00:07:34] I don't think this will impact on any level.

[00:07:38] InformDirect is a really good product and it's been used by a number of different other

[00:07:44] accounting softwares who have also white labeled their technology and have a single sign on method

[00:07:51] to use InformDirect.

[00:07:53] So it will be really interesting to see what actually happens to those other accounting softwares who also

[00:07:59] leverage the same technology and offer Cosec through their platform.

[00:08:03] Everybody sees it as a valuable asset to the accounting suite.

[00:08:08] So we're not sure about that, but I know that a handful of softwares I've worked with in the past

[00:08:14] that have all used InformDirect on a white label basis.

[00:08:17] It looks like all of the team, the 20 people, as well as the five founders will all go across

[00:08:22] to Bright Group as well.

[00:08:24] So really good acquisition on Bright's part, perhaps a little bit unnerving for those who also

[00:08:29] rely on that and they are accounting softwares.

[00:08:32] And there are obviously a number of different businesses that InformDirect has supported.

[00:08:36] So I think there are roughly 450,000 businesses that they support across the UK.

[00:08:43] Their accounts for roughly 10% of those registered as limited companies in the UK.

[00:08:49] So an incredible amount of businesses that are in InformDirect.

[00:08:53] But it's great news for Bright Group who made that acquisition.

[00:08:56] And I would love to at some point talk to them about their in general branding strategy

[00:09:00] because they have been obviously taken a real firm stance to then change the names of those companies.

[00:09:07] So yeah, I wonder what this will be.

[00:09:10] Bright Cosec, what do you think guys?

[00:09:13] I mean, in terms of where it goes with Bright, it's going to be really interesting to see because

[00:09:18] I've got some significant misgivings.

[00:09:20] You know, we're a user of work papers, of my work papers, and there has been no real significant

[00:09:25] product development in there for probably the last two, three years.

[00:09:28] And the acquisition of that happened about a year ago.

[00:09:31] There are lots of things in InformDirect that were wanted to be seen by users.

[00:09:37] An open API for one, to be able to connect it into other things,

[00:09:39] which I know they'd started to explore and looking at integrating with other

[00:09:42] practice management tools.

[00:09:45] Some better quality and clarity around the accounts filing and some IXPRL sort of

[00:09:52] review before filing because otherwise you can end up in these kind of false positives

[00:09:56] where you think you file the accounts only to finally get rejected a little while after.

[00:09:59] That might come true from Bright's ownership of BTC and obviously having access to

[00:10:05] IXPRL tagging in that respect.

[00:10:07] And a few other improvements for larger firms in particular.

[00:10:11] And I guess that's where the residual question mark comes in because Bright are not really

[00:10:17] targeting larger firms.

[00:10:18] So will they now double down and focus in on trying to integrate InformDirect into the rest

[00:10:22] of the suite, which so far has not been that successful?

[00:10:26] And will they continue to sort of focus in on that smaller end of the accounting market,

[00:10:30] in which case, you know, lots of InformDirect customers may well start to look elsewhere.

[00:10:34] Yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of nervous accountants out there.

[00:10:37] So let's hope that we see good things from this acquisition.

[00:10:43] Let's keep positive.

[00:10:45] Right.

[00:10:46] Well, I mean, if we're talking about acquisitions, let's talk about another one.

[00:10:50] The Access Group once again have been buying up businesses.

[00:10:52] They have now bought a business called Hire Ara.

[00:10:56] I think I'm saying that right.

[00:10:57] Who were founded in 2022.

[00:10:59] They're a London based startup and it's all about it's all about AI powered candidate presentation.

[00:11:05] So anything recruitment related is helping those in the creation of the CS, CS, CVS, CVS.

[00:11:12] You can tell I'm an accountant.

[00:11:14] So it also makes the creation of formatted CVS helps with the cover sheets as well as all of those,

[00:11:22] I guess, training for the presentation, making sure those people are well presented.

[00:11:26] Now, this will be built into their recruitment operation system at Access and hopefully help power both that element and the HR side.

[00:11:38] The Access have been well known for with, I guess, what was a market leader for quite some time, people HR.

[00:11:44] So, yeah, I think this is something there.

[00:11:46] Obviously, we've talked about lots of acquisitions from Access Group over time.

[00:11:50] This is in a completely different space.

[00:11:51] I'm not seeing much on the recruitment operating system side, but looks like they're also after AI powered businesses at the moment, as are most, I think, acquisitions.

[00:12:03] They're exploring what are the new AI startups?

[00:12:06] Can we buy them while they're small?

[00:12:08] And that's two startups sold within two years of being created, right?

[00:12:13] I mean, that is a pretty speedy turnaround, right?

[00:12:18] Fascinating.

[00:12:20] I do not have acquisition news.

[00:12:23] I have a brand new accounting tool that's been launched into the market.

[00:12:28] And remember that phrase created by accountants for accountants?

[00:12:32] Well, now there is an even worse phase to strike the fear of God into you because it is a platform created by auditors for auditors.

[00:12:39] Oh, yeah.

[00:12:40] Can you believe there's anything much more gray than that?

[00:12:43] But Nextly are using that as a tagline.

[00:12:46] They have launched an AI financial statement review tool, which effectively allows you to upload financial statements.

[00:12:56] It will then do all of the usual checks that you might do when you're reviewing financial statements.

[00:13:01] So it checks all of the additions.

[00:13:02] It will check the comparative still agree to last year's, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:13:06] And it will also then bounce out those errors along with the ability for you to pick up and annotate any other particular issues you've got.

[00:13:16] Now, there's a little bit on Accounting Web about this.

[00:13:22] You know, the guys who created this are based in Luxembourg and they came about due to frustration of the process of having to go through account reviews and checking for consistency.

[00:13:32] And I can tell you from our own experience that this can be quite painful, particularly when you get into about version 20 of the same set of accounts and small changes are happening.

[00:13:41] But this kind of system is not new.

[00:13:44] You know, we use the financial statement suite from Data Snipper, for example.

[00:13:50] KPMG have a financial statement checker.

[00:13:52] And I've seen a couple of others in the market, one in the US and another one here in the UK.

[00:13:56] So this is probably a fifth one in the market now for auditors and accountants.

[00:14:00] So fascinating to see that this is an area of development.

[00:14:03] Good to have some more competition as well, because hopefully that will drive prices down.

[00:14:07] And at the moment, Nexly will only support US GAAP, Luxembourg GAAP and IFRS.

[00:14:13] It doesn't actually say whether that's IFRS for EU or IFRS for the UK or not.

[00:14:18] So for anyone preparing FS1 or 2 accounts, charity accounts, et cetera, you can't use this at the moment.

[00:14:23] But these kind of tools, I would say, are hugely impactful for organizations where you find a need for them.

[00:14:29] I can absolutely say that where we've used them in the past, they do make a significant difference and they are well worth the investment.

[00:14:35] But it's nice to see some competition in the market.

[00:14:40] And hopefully we'll start to see some more wider integration in and out of products, particularly where you're using platforms to request multiple versions of documentation accounts, et cetera, so that you don't have to go through upload and download processes and things just to make that process a little bit more smooth.

[00:14:56] I'm so surprised that you don't have any acquisition news, given that you said to us that you had some breaking news just before this podcast, didn't you, John?

[00:15:04] And you really bought some breaking news back from February 2024.

[00:15:12] What was it?

[00:15:13] High bulb at Choir's Pento.

[00:15:17] That was my third hand-breaking news as well.

[00:15:20] Like I say, I clearly haven't even verified the source.

[00:15:25] Oh, dear.

[00:15:26] Well, see, just so you know, we managed to catch that, didn't we?

[00:15:30] We were reporting to you that we spoke about this earlier this year.

[00:15:34] But I don't have anything that is more in terms of the acquisition news.

[00:15:39] But I do have some ink on the SCA who is using their criminal powers to crack down on influencers, which I absolutely love the new subterm of influencer.

[00:15:53] It comes after some research that has been published.

[00:15:57] And the watchdog itself says that nearly two-thirds of 18 to 29-year-olds follow social media influencers.

[00:16:04] And 74% of those said they trusted their advice.

[00:16:07] And nine in 10 young followers have been encouraged to change their financial behavior.

[00:16:13] Whether that's positive or not, it doesn't say.

[00:16:15] But the fact is that the influencers are trusted people who then need to be able to check the products that they promote and ensure they're not breaking laws or putting their followers' livelihoods and savings at risk, which doesn't seem to be happening or translating.

[00:16:37] And I just found that really interesting because obviously we're in this space and I don't think I've ever been called a firm fluencer before.

[00:16:43] Although we are obviously not making recommendations on the same basis for people to buy products,

[00:16:50] I think it shows an interesting trend towards the fact that now we enter more of this space in payments, lending and whatnot with the technologies,

[00:16:59] that there is an obligation to all those to make sure that when you are being paid to promote, that that is disclosed.

[00:17:07] So, and I think that's something that is going to become more and more prevalent in our space as we go on.

[00:17:13] And it's interesting to see the FCA cracking down on the individuals who are taking those 10, I think there's 10 influencers they're taking to court.

[00:17:24] Question from my side is whether they should really just crack down on social media platforms in the first place,

[00:17:31] who then allow that content to go through.

[00:17:33] And because that would obviously be a bigger win for them, but it just reminds us all to be diligent in terms of who we choose to work with and why we choose to recommend them.

[00:17:44] And again, to the point and the interview that we had with Kelly Graham,

[00:17:48] a few weeks back on one of our podcasts where you are working with different types of apps in this space,

[00:17:55] please, please, please make sure that you understand the compliance processes that each of them follow,

[00:18:00] because you in your own right can become a finfluencer and I do not wish you to go to court.

[00:18:06] And so that is that.

[00:18:08] I think it's really good that the FCA read my LinkedIn post,

[00:18:13] realised how important it was on an ethical basis and have decided to take action.

[00:18:19] I mean, at least someone has acted on that.

[00:18:24] I mean, that stops you being a finfluencer, Ryan, though.

[00:18:28] What does that make you?

[00:18:29] Like an FCA influencer?

[00:18:30] I'm not sure how to sort of say that, but that's mildly horrifying.

[00:18:36] Yeah, I'm not even going to describe it out of that one.

[00:18:41] Comes out badly.

[00:18:44] But I think maybe the challenge in our space genuinely, right,

[00:18:48] is that we know that they've been paid for campaigns that people have promoted on LinkedIn

[00:18:51] from some of the people in our space.

[00:18:55] Sage to name one that's very well known about and a few others have been knocking about.

[00:19:00] And people are not complying with the rules that LinkedIn and these other platforms put down.

[00:19:05] But the problem is, is who enforces it?

[00:19:07] Because this isn't something that's going to be regulated by the FCA in those instances

[00:19:11] because it's software promotion.

[00:19:13] So it's going to have to come down to somebody like the ICAW, ICAST, ACCA, AET,

[00:19:19] and a plethora of others maybe to have a look at this and try and enforce the rules.

[00:19:23] Because I think people like ourselves and Heather Smith and others who are in this market

[00:19:29] do try and be as honest and as straight as possible when we are sponsored

[00:19:32] or engaged by people to promote products.

[00:19:35] But quite clearly, others are not.

[00:19:37] And that, for me, is a fundamental ethical issue in our marketplace at the moment.

[00:19:43] Yeah, much to our dismay.

[00:19:45] We're looking to plan down money even though we would really like to have some more.

[00:19:50] But if we don't feel it complies, we can't.

[00:19:53] We can't afford to then take that sponsorship at the expense of being compliant

[00:19:58] because as a influencer, that's just not how we roll, unfortunately.

[00:20:03] But also, just ending on the totally light note, what I really love to hear about this week

[00:20:10] was that I thought it was really amazing that Excel turned 40 this week.

[00:20:17] Can you believe that?

[00:20:18] I had a birthday or last week.

[00:20:20] Yeah.

[00:20:21] What I didn't realise is Excel's the same age as me.

[00:20:25] I know.

[00:20:25] And look how much Excel has achieved in that time.

[00:20:30] Wow.

[00:20:31] Wow.

[00:20:32] Wow.

[00:20:32] And it's called the software and it's global, right?

[00:20:35] And why aren't you?

[00:20:36] I went viral.

[00:20:37] Like a cold sore.

[00:20:44] Well, I'm delighted to say that I'm joined once again by Sophie Hosek from Alica.

[00:20:49] This time around in particular, we're going to be covering the golden triangle or the trifecta

[00:20:53] of how do we get this combination of business or business owner, accountant and relationship

[00:20:59] manager at the bank all talking together.

[00:21:01] Sophie, over to you.

[00:21:03] Where do we start with this conversation?

[00:21:05] I was just going to say, we'd probably start with Taylor Swift, the expert in the modern

[00:21:09] day relationship storytelling.

[00:21:10] So as anyone knows, I am obsessed.

[00:21:13] I am a huge fan.

[00:21:14] So if there are any other Swifties who listen to this podcast, you want to share some experiences,

[00:21:18] some favourite songs.

[00:21:21] So the golden rule, I think, with looking at relationships is it's got to be a two-way street.

[00:21:28] So we know for a long time, I'm talking kind of considerable amount of years now, accountants

[00:21:34] have really been, I suppose, left behind, but also they've been left to pick up a lot

[00:21:41] of the work where the relationship managers used to sit side by side with them.

[00:21:44] And over time, that's clearly been broken and removed completely in lots of examples.

[00:21:49] So when you're looking at how do you try and re-establish a new relationship with the

[00:21:54] bank, first of all, thinking about who are open to building relationships.

[00:21:59] How do you meet the right people within the banks who are going to be helpful to you and

[00:22:04] to your clients?

[00:22:06] And I think then just really asking the questions about how can you help?

[00:22:09] How can you serve?

[00:22:10] How can you deliver really good value to our clients is one thing.

[00:22:14] And then there are some practical things about how do you do that on a day-to-day basis?

[00:22:19] What kind of information do you share?

[00:22:21] What questions do you ask?

[00:22:22] How do you prepare yourself, the bank and your client to be able to talk in a meaningful

[00:22:27] way?

[00:22:28] I guess for a lot of accountants, particularly when they're trying to help their clients

[00:22:33] when it comes to banking services, I guess there's a number of points where you typically

[00:22:37] get involved.

[00:22:38] There's that initial point at startup level where you're just looking for a bank account

[00:22:41] typically.

[00:22:42] And that's the sort of starting point to everything.

[00:22:45] And then secondary to that, I guess probably the next most common one might be when you're

[00:22:49] getting into either an element of potentially, I don't know, international trading and having

[00:22:54] to deal with FX accounts potentially, or probably more typically would be around loan finance.

[00:22:59] And you're trying to either start that beauty parade of trying to get the best loan, the best

[00:23:04] rates, et cetera.

[00:23:05] Or actually just having a conversation about, is this business ready for lending?

[00:23:10] And if not, how do we get it ready for lending?

[00:23:12] Because I think that's quite often the challenge that a lot of accountants and firms probably

[00:23:17] struggle with a little bit is that you're not necessarily understanding why businesses are

[00:23:23] being rejected for lending if they go through, say, one of the platforms that are out there,

[00:23:26] for example.

[00:23:27] Yeah, that's absolutely right.

[00:23:29] That's so critical.

[00:23:30] The more advanced warning you can give a client, a customer on what options they have regarding

[00:23:37] lending, the better their choices will be ultimately.

[00:23:40] The decisions that get made really quickly, because there's not much time left, normally

[00:23:44] the worst decisions for them.

[00:23:46] So actually helping them understand and repair their business, their story behind it, which

[00:23:50] is also really critical.

[00:23:51] I was talking to our head of our relationship management team recently, and I said to him,

[00:23:56] you know, in your experience, what do you look for quickly when you're looking and reviewing

[00:24:00] an application?

[00:24:01] And he instantly said, oh, it's just the people.

[00:24:03] Like I'm instantly looking at the management team.

[00:24:06] I'm instantly looking at their experience, the story that they're telling, how are they

[00:24:10] going to deliver on what they said that they can do?

[00:24:12] And I think that's really interesting, because I think people presume bankers look straight

[00:24:16] at the numbers and straight at the financials.

[00:24:18] But actually, that's only really, as accountants know, that's only one and half of the picture.

[00:24:22] I think the second thing is just keeping up to date with things like your KYC packs.

[00:24:28] So making sure that you've got the information that's fundamental to the business up to date,

[00:24:33] making sure that you're proactive if the questions that are being asked, so you can quickly respond

[00:24:38] with the accurate information.

[00:24:40] Even making sure that you've got multiple signatories, so no one mandate is just left

[00:24:45] with one person.

[00:24:46] So just those kind of fundamental hygiene factors are quite important too.

[00:24:49] I think the challenge with businesses and their relationship managers, and obviously this

[00:24:55] sort of falls back, as you say, on typical accountants, is that if a business has got

[00:25:01] a relationship with a bank and then probably goes for lending and doesn't get that lending,

[00:25:06] that's kind of where that bad blood in the relationship can come in.

[00:25:09] And that's where the difficulties can start to happen in terms of breakdown of that relationship,

[00:25:12] right?

[00:25:13] Yeah, I think, yes, that's right.

[00:25:16] I think the length of time is really problematic.

[00:25:19] So we hear that it can take months and months and months to go through an application process,

[00:25:25] back and forth on information that needs to be shared, requests for further information.

[00:25:31] And that's the thing that I think business owners feel most aggrieved by.

[00:25:34] Like they feel like they waste time.

[00:25:36] That's clearly the thing that they have least of and the thing that's most valuable to them

[00:25:39] in the main.

[00:25:41] So, yep, if you're going to get a no, get a quick no.

[00:25:44] That's something that we do try and do at Alika.

[00:25:47] It's something that we do across the board.

[00:25:50] Helping people understand how you turn a no into a yes ultimately, or potentially more

[00:25:55] likely to turn it into a yes is also really important.

[00:25:57] So we do try and give quite a lot of feedback as a bank to customers during the process.

[00:26:03] Yeah, and I guess that's the difference, right, between having a transactional relationship

[00:26:07] almost with a platform.

[00:26:09] You know, lots of us are familiar with, I don't know, getting maybe loans or credit

[00:26:13] cards through a website and it's either a yes or a no.

[00:26:16] But no, there's no kind of, it's a no, but if you did this, it would change.

[00:26:21] Whereas if you've got a personal relationship with someone or you've got a business relationship

[00:26:24] with someone, at least you can then kind of explore, you know, why is it that currently

[00:26:28] right now you're not maybe ready for that product?

[00:26:30] But if you did this or changed this or presented it in a slightly different way, then you kind

[00:26:36] of get yourself over the line.

[00:26:38] Yeah, definitely.

[00:26:38] And again, not realizing that they're in the right position to.

[00:26:42] So actually, you might have been in the position much earlier than you realized to have this

[00:26:46] conversation.

[00:26:46] So I think keeping blanking under a view as a conversation between accountant and client

[00:26:51] is really important because accountants can spot these things much earlier.

[00:26:55] They can spot the trends, they can spot the readiness, the how to prepare clients.

[00:26:59] And then for accountants to say to their banking panel or their suite of banks that they might

[00:27:05] work with closely, you know, what do you think?

[00:27:08] Would this be the type of business that you would be looking at right now?

[00:27:11] And if not, why not?

[00:27:12] And can you help me understand so I can then have that conversation with my clients?

[00:27:16] I think it's that link that's so important, getting that feedback loop from both sides.

[00:27:21] And what are the tips then for building up that kind of relationship?

[00:27:25] I mean, is it kind of the traditional things that we see, which is like, you know, go and

[00:27:27] grab a coffee or maybe get lunch with someone, you know, pick up the phone, have a conversation.

[00:27:33] Is it really as simple as that or is there more to it?

[00:27:36] I think there are two things that I'd suggest.

[00:27:38] One is conversations are really important.

[00:27:41] So most relationships, I think, are built more on talking than they are via email, for example.

[00:27:47] Everybody is incredibly busy.

[00:27:49] Everyone does rely on written communication quite a lot of the time, I think.

[00:27:53] For good reason, if you're information sharing, actually you do want to see it sometimes written

[00:27:56] down to be able to process it.

[00:27:58] But I think if you're trying to build a relationship where you've got a back and forth on question

[00:28:02] and answer, actually speaking to somebody is really key.

[00:28:05] So that could be phone, that could be video, that could be in person.

[00:28:09] And it's probably a combination.

[00:28:11] I think there's a frequency thing as well.

[00:28:13] Being open to having frequent conversations.

[00:28:17] Maybe that's once a month, once a quarter.

[00:28:19] Being able to offer up information and insights.

[00:28:22] You know, what are you seeing in your practice amongst your clients?

[00:28:24] What are the things that are keeping them up at night that you might want to share with

[00:28:29] the bank and say, actually, these are the trends that we're seeing with our hospitality

[00:28:33] clients or with our industry clients that are doing manufacturing, for example.

[00:28:38] And then just having that back and forth.

[00:28:40] So you're building up that knowledge of what's the bank's appetite for that sector?

[00:28:46] You know, if you're specializing, for example, with a lot of charity clients, which banks

[00:28:51] are going to be most open to speaking to and working with charities or looking at them,

[00:28:56] for example.

[00:28:57] So I think it's that frequency of communication and not relying on just written communication.

[00:29:04] One of the other challenges maybe is that sometimes accountants feel that these relationships

[00:29:09] with, you know, not just banks, but other professional advisors is sometimes a bit of

[00:29:12] a one-way street because it's us referring work onto you guys.

[00:29:16] And, you know, quite often there's not anything coming back the other way.

[00:29:19] So is that an unreasonable expectation or is that just the way it is at the moment in terms

[00:29:26] of, you know, we've got to find the best solutions for our clients and, you know, you as a bank

[00:29:32] have got to protect the relationships that you've got and you can't risk those relationships

[00:29:36] too much.

[00:29:37] Yeah, I think right at the very beginning, we talked about it being a two-way street and

[00:29:41] there's got to be a win-win and value add for both.

[00:29:43] So I think asking the question of what is it that as a bank you can do to support us, either

[00:29:48] as a business, as a firm ourselves or with our client experience.

[00:29:52] So I think there should be things that banks can be providing back.

[00:29:56] I mean, at Alika, we're really looking at how do we shine a spotlight on firms that we're

[00:29:59] working with?

[00:30:00] How do we make them look and feel like they're real experts in this conversation with their

[00:30:05] clients?

[00:30:06] How can we help them spot opportunities to discuss business banking?

[00:30:11] But what value does that create for their client experience and the closeness they can then

[00:30:14] have?

[00:30:15] So there are things that we're trying to do around raising awareness over the firms that

[00:30:20] we're working with in a soft value added way, which is really important to us.

[00:30:25] So I think it's definitely asking banks, yeah, what can you do?

[00:30:29] How can you help us?

[00:30:30] How can you support us?

[00:30:31] But also knowing what's important to them.

[00:30:33] Some firms want more clients, clearly.

[00:30:35] That's great.

[00:30:36] Some firms actually don't want more clients, but they might want to increase the value of

[00:30:41] the clients they've currently got, or they might want to work on specific sectors or industries.

[00:30:46] So again, it's not one thing for all people, but it's looking about how flexible can the

[00:30:52] bank be in providing value and support back.

[00:30:55] So I think for any accountants or bookkeepers are out there who do have a blank space in

[00:31:00] their diary, it might be a perfect opportunity to fill that with a conversation with a relationship

[00:31:04] manager, whether it be Alica or another bank, if you've got relationships already, but it's

[00:31:08] all about taking the time to build that up, work on it, and really spend the time on those

[00:31:15] things because they will become beneficial to you and your clients.

[00:31:18] So thank you again, Sophie.

[00:31:20] Great to speak to you as always.

[00:31:21] And that was great.

[00:31:23] Some great insights.

[00:31:24] Thank you.

[00:31:27] So, Indy, I heard you had to look after a dog.

[00:31:30] I did have to look after a dog.

[00:31:32] And do you know, as someone that's never had any real relationship with sort of what I call

[00:31:40] canines, canine creatures, I've never had that responsibility before.

[00:31:47] It was a lot.

[00:31:48] I don't know how people do it.

[00:31:49] Did the dog survive?

[00:31:49] Of course.

[00:31:51] He's very stubborn and very needy.

[00:31:54] He wanted all my attention and all my time.

[00:31:57] He wuffed me straight away.

[00:32:00] And then when we'd go for walks, which was a strange thing.

[00:32:04] He wuffed me.

[00:32:06] He was wuffed me.

[00:32:08] I'm very wabbable.

[00:32:09] I'm wabbable.

[00:32:12] Is that what you thought he was doing when he was barking?

[00:32:14] He was going, wuff, wuff.

[00:32:16] What?

[00:32:17] He wanted my time and my attention.

[00:32:20] And then I would take him out for a walk.

[00:32:21] And then he would dictate the terms of where we were going because he was super stubborn

[00:32:26] with that.

[00:32:27] And even then, by the end of the walk, when I really needed to get back because I had

[00:32:32] a call or whatever it was, I was literally dragging him back.

[00:32:37] He would be huffing and puffing the whole way as if I hadn't just walked him.

[00:32:41] And I just thought, I swear, it was very, it was hard work.

[00:32:45] I don't know how people do it.

[00:32:46] I called John during one of my walks, right?

[00:32:49] John, you didn't have any sympathy for me, did you?

[00:32:51] And the rest of the time, John just heard me yelling, saying, Milo, don't leave that

[00:32:57] dog alone.

[00:32:58] Leave that dog alone.

[00:32:59] The whole time.

[00:33:01] It was like, he's blind, Milo.

[00:33:03] Leave him alone.

[00:33:04] You can't have a go at him.

[00:33:05] What is Milo?

[00:33:07] What kind of dog?

[00:33:07] Milo was a French bulldog.

[00:33:11] So he's a tiny little dog.

[00:33:13] No, he was stocky.

[00:33:14] He was stocky.

[00:33:16] He was a boy.

[00:33:17] He was boisterous.

[00:33:19] He was very, like, he would put corn.

[00:33:22] No higher than half your shin, kind of, in height.

[00:33:27] But he was stocky, right?

[00:33:29] He got that thing low to the ground.

[00:33:30] Why don't you describe him relative to people in the accounting world that we know?

[00:33:36] Oh, okay.

[00:33:38] So is he more of a Jordan Vickery than a James Martin Jules, for example?

[00:33:42] Can we find someone who's lovable, very, like, very cute face?

[00:33:50] You know, you've got to have a nice cute face.

[00:33:52] Stubborn.

[00:33:53] Stubborn.

[00:33:54] They know exactly their mind, and they're very needy.

[00:33:58] Like me, though.

[00:33:59] This would be John T.

[00:34:00] I've got a cute face.

[00:34:05] And just like John T.

[00:34:06] With dogs, you have to show them your boss.

[00:34:09] So you have to become the pack leader.

[00:34:11] Otherwise, you can't control them.

[00:34:13] Otherwise, it's bum sniffing all the way.

[00:34:15] I didn't.

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:16] I'm not certain with authority.

[00:34:19] Hard enough.

[00:34:20] Like, you know, where I rode, I'm like, sick.

[00:34:23] You should have embraced her in a cartman.

[00:34:25] Did not listen.

[00:34:27] Wait, what was that?

[00:34:28] You should have what?

[00:34:28] You should have said, my father died.

[00:34:30] Oh, my God.

[00:34:33] What's terrible about this is I get every one of these terrible jokes that John makes.

[00:34:37] That's what's really bad.

[00:34:39] Most people probably listening and going, no.

[00:34:47] Florentina Sandhu, who has joined us, zero migration expert.

[00:34:52] Also one of our judges, might I add.

[00:34:57] How have you felt in the evening?

[00:34:59] Very good.

[00:34:59] For the first awards session, it was great.

[00:35:04] You are really great.

[00:35:05] Come on, Florentina.

[00:35:07] Hit it.

[00:35:07] Hit it.

[00:35:08] Come on.

[00:35:08] Tell us.

[00:35:09] What should we have done differently?

[00:35:10] Absolutely.

[00:35:11] You have brilliant feedback.

[00:35:14] And we love you for it.

[00:35:15] You are one of our critical judges.

[00:35:17] And we like the fact that you are on our panel because you have worked with many people in this industry before.

[00:35:22] So what did you think of the winners tonight?

[00:35:25] Well deserved.

[00:35:26] How do you feel?

[00:35:27] I think it was good.

[00:35:28] I think it was good.

[00:35:30] I think doing the ditch water was really great.

[00:35:33] You were very special for doing the ditch water.

[00:35:36] Ditch water is the part that makes you different from the others, makes you special.

[00:35:43] I think also having included everyone as judges with so much experience and so broad.

[00:35:53] I think it really helps to bring the nominees qualities and skills and actually give a nice award to them.

[00:36:03] We're really glad to hear that.

[00:36:05] And to be honest with you, the most...

[00:36:07] I thought the ditch water was actually fair actually.

[00:36:13] It was not something that was too controversial in the end because we had a lot of feedback from lots of different nominees who had the same problem.

[00:36:24] So actually I think the most controversial thing in my opinion was John's t-shirt.

[00:36:30] I love his t-shirt.

[00:36:32] No, I really loved it.

[00:36:33] You've done a great job.

[00:36:34] And I'm really looking for the next one.

[00:36:36] Oh my God.

[00:36:38] Hopefully, maybe I will get nominated.

[00:36:42] You definitely should.

[00:36:44] And to be honest with you, there were a lot of people that were judges who probably should have been nominated.

[00:36:50] And there were.

[00:36:51] And I totally agree.

[00:36:52] And actually I did tell that to Ryan.

[00:36:54] I think you shouldn't probably be a judge because you should have definitely been nominated.

[00:37:01] I mean, you, John, Ryan.

[00:37:05] I mean, you are the disruptors.

[00:37:08] Come on.

[00:37:08] Who else is the disruptor?

[00:37:10] I'm not sure.

[00:37:11] I am.

[00:37:12] I mean, I can definitely say John is disruptive as a person.

[00:37:15] That's for sure.

[00:37:17] And I think that, you know, you've hit the nail on the head because we had some people that were judges and that were also nominated.

[00:37:25] And that was a little bit controversial that we thought.

[00:37:28] But what do you think?

[00:37:29] Like Richard Sargent won the category.

[00:37:33] Gary Turner and Will Farner were both judges, to be fair.

[00:37:37] So Ryan also being part of the organizing.

[00:37:41] Yeah, so I think maybe the next time it would be a lot easier to let the judges and the team be nominated.

[00:37:52] Very clear for them to be nominated.

[00:37:54] What did you think, Warren Tina, about his social posts and whether influencers are really the right kind of source of influential?

[00:38:02] Because you're quite an influencer in this space.

[00:38:05] And you go out of your way to give away your knowledge and your playbook to other people, which is why we asked you to be a judge.

[00:38:12] So what are your thoughts when it comes to, like, people in this space who are truly influencing in a sincere, authentic way that you follow and you give appreciation to?

[00:38:22] I think in the accounting world is a little bit hard because it's so much out there.

[00:38:29] And with today's technology, it makes it even harder.

[00:38:33] But when it comes to differentiating the good influencers to the bad influencers, I think it's very hard because we all try our best.

[00:38:44] We all try our best to put our names out there, make ourselves known.

[00:38:50] And it's hard because sometimes you can do something that is not well received.

[00:38:55] And sometimes you do without thinking something really magic out there that actually you get recognized by it.

[00:39:05] So, yeah, I think it's really hard to decide.

[00:39:10] Yeah.

[00:39:10] And that's fair.

[00:39:11] And I think that tonight we had a lot of people here that were truly influential, that we honestly wish we could have probably given away a ton more awards.

[00:39:21] But hopefully next year is a bigger and better awards event.

[00:39:25] So we're really crowned and really happy to have you as one of our judges.

[00:39:30] And thank you for joining us today.

[00:39:32] Thank you for letting me be part of it.

[00:39:34] It was great.

[00:39:35] Thank you.

[00:39:38] That was great.

[00:39:41] Well, there you go.

[00:39:42] That wraps up another episode of the DigiTools in a Cruel World podcast.

[00:39:45] We're delighted that you listened with us to all of the exciting news, updates, interviews, et cetera, that we've covered.

[00:39:52] Of course, we're always interested in hearing your feedback.

[00:39:55] So please do like, share, comment on our socials, on the podcast medium that you're using or just get in contact with us directly.

[00:40:03] We're always interested in a topic that you might be interested in us talking about and taking a deep dive into.

[00:40:08] And, of course, make sure you don't miss any future episodes by liking and subscribing on your podcast medium of choice.

[00:40:14] And we hope to speak to you again soon.

[00:40:16] Cheerio.