Accountants leading AI adoption?!

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to today's Digi-Tools In Accrual World podcast episode.

[00:00:04] We are joined today by the lovely John Toon and Ryan Pearcy as per usual,

[00:00:10] as well as a few guests.

[00:00:13] So we hope that you enjoyed today's episode.

[00:00:15] We'll bring you some app news.

[00:00:17] We are hearing from one of our sponsors, Ryan.

[00:00:21] How are you doing and where are you at this week?

[00:00:24] All right, I'm good. Thank you.

[00:00:25] Where am I at? Like mentally?

[00:00:27] I'm fine, mentally. I'm all right. I'm coping.

[00:00:30] Getting through life and in the best of can.

[00:00:33] Trying to be a dad. Trying to run a service line.

[00:00:37] Yeah. Pushing the boundary. That kind of stuff.

[00:00:40] I like that you're trying to be a dad.

[00:00:42] It sounds like you've just started even though you've already got a daughter.

[00:00:47] Oh yeah, wait. That's four years of being a dad, isn't it?

[00:00:49] Yeah, it's true. Sorry, daughter.

[00:00:51] But you knew dad. You knew dad. Yeah. Exactly.

[00:00:54] I understood what you meant, Ryan. You're sleep deprived.

[00:00:57] We have empathy for you.

[00:00:58] Thank you. Some of us I don't think we do.

[00:01:00] John too. But an in as always.

[00:01:02] Come on then, John. Where are you at mentally this week?

[00:01:06] Tell us.

[00:01:06] Oh, mentally. God, the car crashes.

[00:01:09] It always is. Yeah, indeed. You know what it's like.

[00:01:11] But it's fine. It's fine.

[00:01:13] I mean, I've probably done most of the tasks that I was supposed to do

[00:01:17] and the ones that I haven't done.

[00:01:18] No one's reminded me about. So it's all good.

[00:01:21] And we're looking forward to the awards next week in Manchester.

[00:01:26] So it should be a lot of good fun that you have put on for us, John and Ryan.

[00:01:31] Sounds like it's been at least a busy few weeks of organizing.

[00:01:37] I can happily say that I have just leant back

[00:01:39] and seen all the fireworks keep off.

[00:01:42] It's been lovely to just sun myself the whole time. Thanks, guys.

[00:01:46] We have noticed that, indeed. We have noticed that.

[00:01:48] And all I can say is if it is a disaster, we blame you entirely.

[00:01:52] What? Looking forward to turning up and breathing.

[00:01:56] Yeah, you know, it's one of those jobs now where we're just turning up

[00:01:59] and like breathing in and out and I'm just, you know, exist.

[00:02:02] Well, you've left it to the men of science as stated in the prior podcast.

[00:02:08] So we can only assume that this is going to be, you know,

[00:02:12] to the decimal place perfection.

[00:02:15] I hope so, Ryan. I should bloody rascal.

[00:02:19] So as well, that's the whole point.

[00:02:21] I just had another couple of weeks just chilling out,

[00:02:25] getting good sleep, magnesium still working all of the way.

[00:02:28] Brilliant. Where should we crack on with some of our news?

[00:02:34] So I'm teaching off this week with the impact AI is having

[00:02:38] in the accounting and bookkeeping community.

[00:02:42] Sage has conducted some recent research

[00:02:46] that suggests that accounting and bookkeeper accountants

[00:02:49] and bookkeepers are embracing AI at a faster rate

[00:02:53] than the benchmark of all UK sectors.

[00:02:57] So the figures that they produce in their reports show that as of September,

[00:03:00] 2023, 39% businesses in the UK were financing or adopting AI

[00:03:05] compared to 54% of accountants and bookkeepers.

[00:03:11] So, you know, it's quite interesting to see that

[00:03:15] they're able to benchmark that quite in the same way.

[00:03:18] They cite in the research that there's, you know, optical character recognition

[00:03:22] software that digitizes the paper receipts and bills, etc.

[00:03:26] and some sort of intelligent bank reconciliation,

[00:03:29] which we've seen in the past.

[00:03:31] But I think that's one part is that actually most accountants

[00:03:36] have more exposure to the need for like manual tasks

[00:03:41] that can be automated with AI.

[00:03:45] But then there's also some other research in there

[00:03:49] in terms of the adoption of other AI products being adopted,

[00:03:52] I guess by means of copilot or chat GPT

[00:03:55] and the usage of that in the practice for things like

[00:03:59] developing content or so chasing payments, etc.

[00:04:05] And so I'm quite curious whether you guys have

[00:04:10] a different perspective on this.

[00:04:13] I know that you've as part of the systems advisory network

[00:04:15] as part of that digital transformation piece,

[00:04:18] you probably have to introduce a lot more technology

[00:04:21] into different businesses and clients that you work with.

[00:04:24] A part is part of that has part of that changed

[00:04:28] and evolved more over the course of the last one year

[00:04:31] than it has saved for the past three years

[00:04:34] because things like OCR and bank reconciliation technology

[00:04:37] that use some form of let's say in the commerce AI

[00:04:43] or like rules based approach has existed for years.

[00:04:47] So I'm quite curious to know whether you're seeing

[00:04:49] that rapid acceleration and you've done it yourself

[00:04:52] and recommended it into businesses.

[00:04:54] So I would say that the advent of AI has not changed

[00:05:00] the speed of adoption in this space.

[00:05:02] I think COVID did.

[00:05:04] And I think we're still seeing the impact of that.

[00:05:06] People knowing they need to move to the cloud

[00:05:07] and we're getting to that right time that they can best

[00:05:10] and do that.

[00:05:11] I would be talking about accountants doing it.

[00:05:15] Accountants are normally very tech focused.

[00:05:17] We use it big chunk of anything we do.

[00:05:19] So it makes sense that as I start penetrating that,

[00:05:23] we're going to start trialing it.

[00:05:25] And the percentage, I'm trying to remember what percentage

[00:05:27] it was you quoted 50% that are piloting or adopting AI

[00:05:33] in their business.

[00:05:33] I think a lot of it will be piloting and it'll be a small

[00:05:36] number of people in it beyond the OCR tech.

[00:05:40] I think it would be, you know, a couple of members

[00:05:41] trying to get a copilot seeing out works is not prevalent.

[00:05:45] What I was more concerned with when I looked at this

[00:05:47] was the stat that only 61% of accountants see the potential

[00:05:51] for AI to enhance their work life balance.

[00:05:54] Maybe that's because they just think they'll end up

[00:05:56] doing more work because they're getting more clients.

[00:05:58] But you think that most people must see that the impact

[00:06:02] of AI will have a positive impact if adopted correctly.

[00:06:05] It's just where they have the time to invest

[00:06:07] and make the most of it.

[00:06:08] I'm going to see adoption of it correctly.

[00:06:10] That is a key there, right?

[00:06:12] So since we've brought on the fabulously that he is

[00:06:15] fabulously who makes me look fabulous too.

[00:06:20] You know, there's transcription software

[00:06:22] and the link of that to things like the task

[00:06:25] management software that he's implemented in terms

[00:06:28] of like click up and linking that to like transcribing

[00:06:31] meetings and then making that searchable content

[00:06:34] has meant that we've been able to work far more efficiently

[00:06:39] than we could on this podcast even alone a year ago.

[00:06:43] So I'm quite intrigued that accountants don't see

[00:06:47] that as an opportunity as well, that you know

[00:06:50] they could leverage that.

[00:06:51] And John have you done much of that in your practice

[00:06:54] or in your meetings?

[00:06:56] I mean, we've implemented quite a lot of automation

[00:07:00] that's for sure.

[00:07:02] But I mean, to be honest, I think I call bullshit on this report

[00:07:05] because I think it's really just marketing puff.

[00:07:09] And you know, the stats that they've got

[00:07:12] where they're talking about you know

[00:07:14] what was it he said on them so 39% are only just adopting AI

[00:07:18] and stuff like that.

[00:07:19] I think the reality is like what happens quite often

[00:07:21] with these things is people think that when we're talking

[00:07:23] about AI we're just talking about basically

[00:07:26] generative AI and chat GPT and that's why you

[00:07:28] can't personally see the very low stats for adoption.

[00:07:31] And then the people that say oh no we are adopting

[00:07:33] have a broader view and they're talking about the wider

[00:07:35] umbrella of AI and the tools that have been available for us.

[00:07:40] And again I think that's why you get that pivot

[00:07:42] where people say they don't feel like AI is going

[00:07:44] to improve their work-life balance.

[00:07:45] Well AI clearly in all of its forms will improve

[00:07:48] your work-life balance because you can automate tasks

[00:07:51] or you can streamline tasks or you can reduce

[00:07:52] the time taken to complete tasks.

[00:07:55] It's just what you do with that.

[00:07:56] And the problem for most accountants is the reality

[00:07:58] is like when you start to do that with tasks

[00:08:01] in terms of automation or reducing the time taken

[00:08:03] you just didn't fill that time with something else

[00:08:06] whether it's more admin, whether it's bringing

[00:08:08] work forward whatever it is.

[00:08:10] So that's one of the reasons I think where accountants

[00:08:12] in particular professionals don't feel that these tools

[00:08:15] are making a significant difference because all

[00:08:17] that's happening is instead of doing one job

[00:08:20] for three days and then doing the next job

[00:08:22] for three days or whatever it is we're now doing

[00:08:24] that one job in one day and we're bringing forward

[00:08:26] the next job and doing that in one day and so

[00:08:28] we feel like we're still on this train

[00:08:31] or this hamster wheel of ever continuing pieces of work.

[00:08:38] So I think that's where it's at.

[00:08:41] I think the only interesting point which has come

[00:08:45] out of this which I've seen in other surveys as well

[00:08:47] is about businesses have to be really targeted

[00:08:50] and that includes accountants in terms of how they look

[00:08:52] to adopt these new tools and they've got to look

[00:08:55] for genuine use cases to implement AI

[00:08:57] to then have some success and that all that

[00:09:00] it just fail fast is like try something once

[00:09:03] try and implement it if it doesn't work move on

[00:09:05] don't try and be broad brush and just try and

[00:09:07] say oh we're going to use chat GPT for everything

[00:09:09] for example because that won't work

[00:09:11] and you won't have any success.

[00:09:12] At least you can use it to make me look

[00:09:13] like a sexy centre though.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:17] Smoking in cot is what I think that the

[00:09:19] AI interpreted because it made my fingers

[00:09:22] cigarettes.

[00:09:25] It's very hot.

[00:09:27] I feel like the AI has actually been quite inappropriate

[00:09:32] within my boundaries.

[00:09:34] Is that because there was a wrong brand of cigarettes

[00:09:36] or do you smoke roll-ups is that what you prefer?

[00:09:40] I think it was the wrong colour, wrong part

[00:09:44] of the world and it was the fingers that

[00:09:47] looked like cigarettes that made me think

[00:09:50] that the AI has somehow like proof of.

[00:09:54] So you're taking offense that they're underlying

[00:09:56] societal biases that we have is what we're saying.

[00:09:59] What they said is it's just a small game baby.

[00:10:05] Anyway, what's the next?

[00:10:08] Moving on then.

[00:10:09] Okay so Futurely have launched multi-currency

[00:10:13] consolidated reporting into their products

[00:10:16] I believe they've been working on this for quite a long time

[00:10:18] but it's now there and again, you know,

[00:10:21] I think a little bit like last week's app news

[00:10:24] this brings them up to sort of feature parity

[00:10:26] with some of the competitors.

[00:10:27] You know, SIFT have already got this,

[00:10:29] Spotlight have got this,

[00:10:30] Fathom have already got this in their product.

[00:10:32] So it's good to see.

[00:10:34] I must admit I haven't tried it out

[00:10:35] but I did see the announcement by Hanna

[00:10:38] I think it was the other day.

[00:10:40] It looks quite interesting but we're not

[00:10:42] we're not our user of that product.

[00:10:44] So I won't get a chance to put my hands on it

[00:10:46] but I'm sure there'll be others who have

[00:10:47] have got it or have used it

[00:10:49] and would love to hear your feedback or comments on that.

[00:10:51] Yep, it's another thing that just helps bring

[00:10:54] Futurely forward and since they've kind of merged

[00:10:57] their products over time

[00:10:58] yeah I'm dabbling with it more and more.

[00:11:02] One thing I've got from zero is probably

[00:11:05] a testament to what they've been doing

[00:11:07] with their app store and how big it's grown.

[00:11:08] They've now released a technical best practice

[00:11:11] documentation for anyone that's trying to build

[00:11:13] great integration through zero.

[00:11:15] So basically a guide on how to

[00:11:17] integrate with zero effectively.

[00:11:19] Now if you've ever used any app that's integrated

[00:11:22] with zero you would know that they can vary

[00:11:24] dramatically in how good the integration is

[00:11:27] how well they say it is and how well

[00:11:29] the document is and how much information

[00:11:31] you can get on how that integration works.

[00:11:34] So zero basically recognize this

[00:11:36] and now release a guide for anyone that's

[00:11:39] connecting in for what they should be doing

[00:11:41] to build the integration effectively

[00:11:42] and then talk about it make sure that they

[00:11:44] restored effectively and create a great user

[00:11:46] experience. So great that zero doing it

[00:11:49] realizing that there is a

[00:11:51] challenge regarding the app store

[00:11:52] and getting good integration especially if you're

[00:11:54] an end user and helping those apps that

[00:11:56] are building to build the best

[00:11:59] model for delivering effective

[00:12:01] integrations via their API.

[00:12:03] Yeah I mean I think this

[00:12:05] is a great little piece of news and I'm actually

[00:12:06] glad that you you find it around because

[00:12:08] I'm going to share it with my team because

[00:12:10] we're building something in zero at the moment

[00:12:12] just for one of our clients and that would

[00:12:14] be really helpful for them to use as a guide.

[00:12:17] I've also got something

[00:12:18] else from zero this is

[00:12:20] a zero partnering up with a product

[00:12:22] called mental loop which is a

[00:12:24] software to basically

[00:12:26] I guess like match people up

[00:12:28] and then these

[00:12:30] mentors will be working with

[00:12:32] their mentees over a period of time

[00:12:34] and hopefully encouraging them to

[00:12:36] get into the space. And there's a whole

[00:12:38] bunch of it's like the who's who

[00:12:39] of the accounting space over there in

[00:12:42] Australia in terms of people are involved in this.

[00:12:44] So there's some great name like Andrew van

[00:12:46] de Beek has been on the pod in the past Ali Garrett

[00:12:49] and a whole bunch of others.

[00:12:50] It's based off a whole bunch of research

[00:12:52] they've done they've said that

[00:12:54] 65% of practices are

[00:12:56] saying that they're struggling to attract

[00:12:57] talent and 81% of

[00:13:00] accountants and bookkeepers think that the

[00:13:02] industry needs to do a better job of

[00:13:03] conveying the impact

[00:13:05] that accountants bookkeepers

[00:13:08] can have on businesses. I think this is

[00:13:09] something that I'd like to see

[00:13:11] in the UK and

[00:13:14] I'm amazed that they haven't actually lodged it

[00:13:16] in the US because we know in the US in particular

[00:13:17] there's a huge talent crunch over there

[00:13:19] and this could be something that would really set zero apart

[00:13:22] from any of their peers in

[00:13:23] North America in the market there

[00:13:25] and it chimes in with a lot of the stuff

[00:13:28] that the AI CPA have been talking about

[00:13:30] over there in terms of trying to change the

[00:13:32] portrayal of what the accounting world is like

[00:13:34] and improve

[00:13:36] people's perceptions of what

[00:13:37] can happen. But yeah, an

[00:13:40] interesting thing I must admit we're not

[00:13:42] one of the 65% we were

[00:13:44] oversubscribed for all of our trainee positions

[00:13:46] and some of our placements this year which we're

[00:13:47] really grateful for but I don't think that's down to

[00:13:49] the hard work of some of our team

[00:13:51] in terms of reaching out to schools and colleges

[00:13:53] and universities locally and

[00:13:55] talking about what we do and talking about

[00:13:57] you know we're not just another accounting firm

[00:14:00] we do interesting things with

[00:14:01] interesting clients. Yeah great little scheme

[00:14:04] this is and yeah I hope this

[00:14:05] does broad and beyond Australia

[00:14:08] yeah can't wait to see it come to the UK.

[00:14:12] Another thing from

[00:14:13] zero I guess we talk about this all the time

[00:14:16] but they've got more news regarding their

[00:14:18] invoicing so switch from

[00:14:20] classic invoicing to new invoicing

[00:14:21] is coming and being

[00:14:23] mandated and they've flagged that

[00:14:25] although it is coming soon there are a number

[00:14:27] of features that they still want to build out that was

[00:14:29] in the classic

[00:14:31] invoicing that isn't there yet

[00:14:33] so things such as the ability

[00:14:35] to record overpayments against invoices

[00:14:37] that's not there yet you've got more

[00:14:39] compact line item displays

[00:14:41] if you've ever been using guess the new one it just feels

[00:14:43] more stretched out

[00:14:45] easier way to manage imagery

[00:14:47] edit items move items around

[00:14:49] and new tracking options as well

[00:14:51] and they have flagged that actually the new

[00:14:53] invoicing experience has been

[00:14:55] has I guess been slower to

[00:14:57] update and it's sending

[00:14:59] more information back and forth through the

[00:15:01] internet so they have

[00:15:03] enhanced the speed

[00:15:05] recently to try and bring it on par

[00:15:07] if not fast in the the classic invoicing

[00:15:09] but they flagged that

[00:15:11] because they've changed this they've got new

[00:15:13] functionality that they are

[00:15:15] planning to roll out which wasn't possible

[00:15:17] in the classic invoicing will be possible

[00:15:19] in new invoicing one is further

[00:15:21] customization of what you can do

[00:15:23] changing fonts renaming columns

[00:15:25] so playing around with how your

[00:15:27] invoicing looks as mentioned in the prior

[00:15:29] pod and the ability to send invoices via

[00:15:31] SMS which is going to go in other regions

[00:15:33] first and then clouds UK

[00:15:35] and then the ability to update

[00:15:37] credit notes but also provide

[00:15:39] options for practical payments

[00:15:41] so if you're doing projects you'd be able to take

[00:15:43] deposits split totals etc to go through those

[00:15:45] and then

[00:15:47] the ability to show how invoices are

[00:15:49] outstanding and how they're managed as well

[00:15:51] as being set up recurring invoices

[00:15:53] much more flexible way so

[00:15:55] they've been building this they're forcing the

[00:15:57] transition but it's to enable them to develop

[00:15:59] the system further beyond

[00:16:01] what they were possible or what was

[00:16:03] possible in their classic invoicing

[00:16:05] structure I know they're

[00:16:07] mandating this change but they've also extended

[00:16:09] the timetable a little bit in terms of

[00:16:11] you can still utilize all the voicing

[00:16:13] for an extra couple of months

[00:16:15] I think it is now if I remember

[00:16:17] rightly and I mean I think this is just

[00:16:19] symptomatic I mean zero done a good

[00:16:21] job of selling this as a good news story

[00:16:22] but this whole new invoicing

[00:16:25] modular they've been building has been

[00:16:26] set with problems and

[00:16:28] the fact that it has not

[00:16:31] had the same functionality

[00:16:32] of the old invoicing stuff is only

[00:16:35] like contributed to account bookkeepers

[00:16:37] being incredibly frustrated by

[00:16:39] the by the roll out of this and

[00:16:40] we talk about getting

[00:16:42] products up to feature parity across your competition

[00:16:45] I mean you know this is just basic right

[00:16:47] it's like you know you can't roll out

[00:16:49] something new and say it's new

[00:16:51] if it doesn't even do the same things that

[00:16:53] some you know that the previous functionality did

[00:16:55] so I think you know zero

[00:16:57] scored a massive own goal of this and

[00:16:59] they're now getting the marketing

[00:17:01] and sales team on the on the front foot with this

[00:17:03] and trying to sell it as a good news story

[00:17:04] and don't get me wrong I mean I think looking forward

[00:17:07] in terms of the additional functionality that

[00:17:09] would come with it you know the ability to

[00:17:11] send stuff out by SMS for example

[00:17:12] is great you know and that's

[00:17:15] only been available through third party acts

[00:17:17] previously but the

[00:17:19] why I think I have to go through this process

[00:17:21] which has been out in the open

[00:17:23] which you know maybe you could say

[00:17:25] it's fine but it's just been

[00:17:26] this has been beset with problems and it's been

[00:17:29] a nightmare. Yeah well I think they did

[00:17:31] the same with reporting didn't they but I think

[00:17:33] the main thing when the reporting is they brought

[00:17:35] in what was there from old style reporting

[00:17:36] a lot more quickly so it wasn't getting close

[00:17:38] to deadline and people were starting to panic that they can't

[00:17:40] operate in the same way whereas they've kind of

[00:17:42] it's taken a lot longer for the invoicing functionality

[00:17:45] to get on par

[00:17:47] as we've said it's not even there yet

[00:17:49] so that's probably the biggest frustration

[00:17:51] if they brought and managed to do it six months

[00:17:53] or six months to go it'd be like okay

[00:17:55] well we're kind of happy now

[00:17:56] and that worked well I think for the reporting side

[00:17:59] people were still annoyed because there's change

[00:18:01] but there's a lot more frustration

[00:18:03] I feel around the changes to the

[00:18:05] the new invoice and obviously what clients

[00:18:07] messaging going why what's happening

[00:18:09] why am I you know why is my functionality

[00:18:11] been taken away and I agree

[00:18:13] with you on that as well because I think you know when we

[00:18:15] had the reporting changes yes there were certain

[00:18:17] things that were lost but that you

[00:18:19] could already see some of that new additional functionality

[00:18:21] coming into the new style reporting almost

[00:18:23] straight away and I know it's kind of like

[00:18:25] the SAS man the other SAS sort of

[00:18:27] you know methodology is you launch

[00:18:30] product early and then you worry about refining

[00:18:32] refining and you know don't wait until

[00:18:33] it's perfect sort of thing but I do think

[00:18:35] in this instance where you kind of like offering

[00:18:37] effectively like a better improvement

[00:18:39] on some existing functionality you've

[00:18:41] got to at least have that baked in you know

[00:18:43] comparability pretty much from the start

[00:18:46] you know maybe we wanted to exceptions because otherwise

[00:18:48] you just end up in this place where people get frustrated

[00:18:50] final bit of news for me on

[00:18:53] Revolute who have recently

[00:18:56] achieved their banking

[00:18:58] license and so Revolute has 9 million customers

[00:19:02] in the UK 45 million globally

[00:19:04] has announced that

[00:19:06] they have received the UK banking license

[00:19:09] with restrictions from the

[00:19:11] Prudential Regulation Authority

[00:19:14] who's a regulator responsible for

[00:19:16] overseeing the UK banking sector

[00:19:18] and it's something that we

[00:19:22] discussed on previous broadcast in terms of

[00:19:24] these the delays that Revolute has faced

[00:19:27] in receiving its banking license given the

[00:19:29] scale of some of the controversies that we've

[00:19:31] seen online Revolute is now

[00:19:34] seeing their entering their mobilization stage

[00:19:36] which is referred to as the

[00:19:39] authorization with restrictions

[00:19:41] something really common for new banks in the UK

[00:19:45] and so it means that the UK customers during

[00:19:48] that restrict period

[00:19:50] it allows the new banks like Revolute

[00:19:53] to complete the build out of the UK banking

[00:19:56] operations ahead of launching fully in the market

[00:20:00] so until then UK customers will continue

[00:20:03] to use their Revolute e-money accounts as they always have

[00:20:06] and so interesting

[00:20:09] is what I have to say about that

[00:20:11] it would give a lot more confidence

[00:20:14] to some of the Revolute customers who have

[00:20:16] had unfortunate incidents

[00:20:19] of fraud and lost

[00:20:22] some money from their accounts

[00:20:26] or in some ways it works in their favour

[00:20:29] that there is a banking license granted to

[00:20:31] hopefully it protects them a little bit better

[00:20:34] John, any thoughts?

[00:20:36] This has been a long time in the making

[00:20:38] I mean it's been very well publicized

[00:20:39] Revolute's challenges in terms of getting

[00:20:41] access to an FCA banking license

[00:20:44] and I think in the year completely right

[00:20:46] in terms of the people

[00:20:50] that have suffered from fraud

[00:20:53] and had issues with Revolute in the past

[00:20:56] and now we're going to be covered by that

[00:20:57] banking license and Revolute are going to have to step up

[00:20:59] where there are challenges around this

[00:21:01] and their customers are still exposed

[00:21:04] or still suffer fraud which is not their fault

[00:21:06] and as a consequence

[00:21:08] it's Revolute that will be on the hook

[00:21:09] rather than the customers which has been

[00:21:11] the baseline play on this

[00:21:13] so I think from that point of view it's good

[00:21:15] I still think the FCA

[00:21:18] or the government or somebody in the banking sector

[00:21:20] needs to work much harder

[00:21:21] at making it really clear to consumers

[00:21:24] and businesses what the differences are

[00:21:26] between e-money accounts and a normal bank

[00:21:28] as it were

[00:21:30] and it shouldn't fall on people

[00:21:32] like myself and Ryan and others in the sector

[00:21:34] to try and do that education piece

[00:21:36] particularly where we might not be fully clear

[00:21:38] about the rules

[00:21:43] So we are lucky enough to be joined today

[00:21:46] by Paul Sparks one of the

[00:21:47] original crew at i-Plicit

[00:21:49] and I want to know

[00:21:51] Paul I've been working with i-Plicit for a while

[00:21:53] but I actually want to know why does it even exist

[00:21:55] what was the purpose of it

[00:21:57] why did you build this thing

[00:21:59] I suppose it's because

[00:22:00] the obvious answer is that there was a need

[00:22:02] all comes from the fact that

[00:22:04] there was lots and lots of organisations

[00:22:07] that were on entry level systems

[00:22:10] and were having to get

[00:22:11] lots and increase numbers of add-ons

[00:22:13] in order to solve problems

[00:22:15] and there was also a whole cohort

[00:22:17] of people who were on old legacy systems

[00:22:19] that weren't in the cloud

[00:22:21] massive needs for it

[00:22:22] and really the other providers

[00:22:25] in the market were not offering

[00:22:26] a solution at that level

[00:22:28] so i-Plicit was born

[00:22:30] Yeah and I guess like for the context

[00:22:32] throughout the UK we had

[00:22:34] an influx of change

[00:22:36] for small businesses over to cloud based

[00:22:38] technology but the mid tier

[00:22:40] because they had a lot of functionality

[00:22:41] in their existing legacy software

[00:22:43] and they're always a bit slower to change

[00:22:45] it's probably been lagging behind

[00:22:47] that big dramatic shift to the cloud

[00:22:49] partly because there wasn't anything there

[00:22:51] are you noticing that change now

[00:22:54] I feel that there's like

[00:22:56] the whole sector has been

[00:22:58] revitalised and people are like

[00:22:59] no we now need to move to the cloud in that mid tier space

[00:23:01] 100%

[00:23:03] the difference is

[00:23:05] to change an entry level system

[00:23:08] if you've been using it for a year

[00:23:10] two years doesn't feel

[00:23:12] wasteful, doesn't feel it's a problem

[00:23:15] whereas if you've invested

[00:23:16] three years ago and you've

[00:23:18] spent how many

[00:23:20] 10,000 to 1000s of pounds

[00:23:21] doing such a change takes

[00:23:23] serious consideration and justification

[00:23:27] so now what we're seeing is

[00:23:28] lots of these

[00:23:29] old-prem assistance that have been in place for

[00:23:32] five, six, seven years

[00:23:33] they've had their life and so

[00:23:35] logically number one on the list

[00:23:38] is it needs to be true cloud

[00:23:39] number two it needs to be

[00:23:42] all of these items

[00:23:44] I've got in here

[00:23:45] yeah and I guess

[00:23:46] for clarity, for anyone that

[00:23:48] is new to IPLICIT

[00:23:50] you are a mid tier finance

[00:23:52] solution but cloud native you are built

[00:23:54] from the ground up into the cloud to work

[00:23:57] specifically not hosted solution

[00:23:58] purely in the cloud, is that correct

[00:24:00] that is correct, yeah born in the cloud

[00:24:02] designed for the cloud

[00:24:04] I like that

[00:24:06] I like that term born in the cloud

[00:24:07] I feel that sometimes I was born in the cloud

[00:24:10] the fact that I work in there for so long

[00:24:12] but so let's

[00:24:14] expand a little bit on this, you did it to

[00:24:16] fill a need but every

[00:24:18] solution ends up

[00:24:20] niching to some extent so what are the

[00:24:22] I guess the main sector services that

[00:24:24] IPLICIT really fits well into

[00:24:27] and well today

[00:24:28] we have a huge

[00:24:30] following in the non-profit

[00:24:32] sector that's certainly been a very

[00:24:34] strong space for us but also professional services

[00:24:37] recruitment

[00:24:39] just over two years ago

[00:24:40] we also announced ourselves into the

[00:24:42] education market and have

[00:24:44] over 400 schools now

[00:24:46] across a number of large

[00:24:48] multiappair trust so

[00:24:50] but it's why being consistently

[00:24:53] right, yeah

[00:24:54] you keep building out functionality like obviously

[00:24:56] I think it was maybe two years ago maybe less

[00:24:58] than that you brought in your inventory

[00:25:00] area and that

[00:25:02] I guess dramatically changed or broadened

[00:25:04] the amount of businesses you could work with

[00:25:06] but there are certain elements that I love

[00:25:08] about IPLICIT that

[00:25:10] I'm sure there's way more but the bits

[00:25:13] from engaging many years

[00:25:14] ago probably near when you

[00:25:16] kind of launched it, the way you can slice

[00:25:18] data because pretty much any

[00:25:20] realm like endless

[00:25:22] ways to slice data and bring it into

[00:25:24] the reporting, your reporting was so powerful

[00:25:26] early on I didn't know where to start because

[00:25:28] you could just get anything you needed in any way

[00:25:30] but a bit that seems to be out

[00:25:32] and I really love is the automation

[00:25:34] so like accruals, prepayments

[00:25:36] that side which isn't

[00:25:38] solved at all in the small business space

[00:25:40] and I think really when I guess

[00:25:42] I open or I introduce clients I PICIT

[00:25:44] they're like wow I didn't even know we could do this

[00:25:46] so do you feel that that's kind

[00:25:48] of that big wow moment for your clients

[00:25:50] there are other elements inside of PICIT

[00:25:51] that are that big game changer where people go

[00:25:53] I really want to learn more

[00:25:56] I mean there's a, I think I PICIT

[00:25:58] is about wow I mean I think

[00:26:00] there's a massive element

[00:26:02] of the whole concept

[00:26:04] of how we architect our product

[00:26:06] is about making sure that we're always

[00:26:08] forward thinking so you mention

[00:26:10] the automation centre which is something

[00:26:12] we're hugely proud of but we've got a whole

[00:26:14] stream of our development

[00:26:16] all about adding more automations

[00:26:19] but yeah the slicing

[00:26:20] dicing having like effectively a pivot

[00:26:22] table at the high of your software

[00:26:24] being able to look at any which dimension

[00:26:26] you wish add extra dimensions

[00:26:29] I think is

[00:26:30] you know if it goes back to you said why do we exist

[00:26:33] we all know that the entry

[00:26:35] of a product there's some brilliant products out

[00:26:37] there but they've got limitations on dimensions

[00:26:39] tracking codes etc

[00:26:41] it's all well and good having extra ones

[00:26:42] but how easy can you report on it, how easy can you see it

[00:26:46] and so that's

[00:26:47] so it's about having those two tied together

[00:26:49] you know

[00:26:50] the people

[00:26:53] want new systems to

[00:26:54] offer greater levels of productivity

[00:26:56] that's all to me why we're doing it

[00:26:58] and greater productivity

[00:27:00] and also taking it beyond the realms of the finance function

[00:27:03] that's something else you must have witnessed firsthand

[00:27:06] when dealing with some appliance who use like

[00:27:09] PISA I'm sure Ryan is that

[00:27:10] you know it isn't just about the finance function

[00:27:12] it's about going across the wider organisation

[00:27:15] different stakeholders

[00:27:16] managing budgets, managing

[00:27:18] the batteries, purchase orders

[00:27:20] and all that whole purchase to pay

[00:27:22] so I think as

[00:27:24] organisations grow up

[00:27:25] they want better control

[00:27:27] they want better reporting

[00:27:29] they all go hand in hand

[00:27:31] I know that

[00:27:32] the system is built to work pretty much

[00:27:35] inside it entirely but you've got

[00:27:37] an open API people can build into it

[00:27:39] even if there is certain functionality or certain systems

[00:27:41] that a business has they can connect

[00:27:43] it in, they have to pretty much build it from scratch

[00:27:45] my understanding is you don't really have

[00:27:46] an app store at marketplace or whatever they call it nowadays

[00:27:49] but you do have

[00:27:51] the ability for people to build into and that's

[00:27:53] a big plus

[00:27:54] Paul I think it's been great getting you on

[00:27:56] I know we're going to talk a lot more about

[00:27:58] I guess why you're in the space

[00:27:59] and potentially other things that you care about

[00:28:02] and you think are critical about what's going on

[00:28:04] in the digital currency world

[00:28:05] but thanks for joining us today

[00:28:07] Thanks John

[00:28:09] I brought beer into the office actually

[00:28:11] because I've got a shed load of beer

[00:28:13] I have a beer subscription which I cannot get my way through

[00:28:15] I can't physically drink

[00:28:17] You know if you cancel it though

[00:28:18] you just leave yourself subscribed

[00:28:20] and you're like no I will win this

[00:28:23] I will get through all this

[00:28:25] beer that keeps turning up in crates

[00:28:27] I'm just praying that

[00:28:28] What's your surprise to you John too

[00:28:31] I'm asking you to feel sorry for me

[00:28:32] I'm just saying I've just brought beer into it

[00:28:34] No okay so then free beers

[00:28:36] for everybody that's coming to the awards

[00:28:38] because John is not here

[00:28:39] What other subscriptions do you have John

[00:28:42] do you have a gravy subscription

[00:28:43] I think John

[00:28:45] A bauveril subscription

[00:28:48] Do you have a pie subscription

[00:28:50] Oh now that would be good

[00:28:52] Imagine you had a pie and gravy subscription

[00:28:55] That would be living the dream though

[00:28:57] Maybe we should pivot

[00:28:59] maybe we're doing the wrong thing

[00:29:00] we need to be launching a pie subscription service

[00:29:03] One of the things I found really interesting

[00:29:05] was when Airbnb were first building their business

[00:29:07] and they couldn't really afford

[00:29:09] to scale

[00:29:10] they started selling cereal

[00:29:15] and branded cereal

[00:29:16] and they started selling cereal

[00:29:16] in their Airbnb location

[00:29:19] so it was like an op-sell

[00:29:20] and that cereal helped them build

[00:29:22] the capital to then continue

[00:29:24] scaling the Airbnb

[00:29:27] platform, tech platform

[00:29:28] It's interesting isn't it

[00:29:30] I did not know that

[00:29:32] I wonder what else we could

[00:29:34] op-sell from that on that basis

[00:29:37] Cereal

[00:29:39] Works

[00:29:41] Cereal

[00:29:42] Yeah

[00:29:43] Ryan

[00:29:44] He's sort of disrupt a cereal

[00:29:45] always clearing out

[00:29:47] Ryan's favourite granola

[00:29:49] We could make our own granola

[00:29:51] The three of us could make a granola

[00:29:52] That's what our pie and gravy subscription was

[00:29:55] Yeah that makes sense

[00:29:57] Can you make a pie though

[00:30:00] Oh god I made

[00:30:02] such a good vegan pie

[00:30:04] that it would actually

[00:30:05] But you're not vegan anymore

[00:30:08] I'm not

[00:30:10] I'm just saying

[00:30:11] that it's still the best

[00:30:13] I'm not sure I found out so why did you stop being vegan

[00:30:17] I think it was very

[00:30:20] difficult to sustain in other countries

[00:30:22] and travelling for work

[00:30:24] and I'm a bit

[00:30:25] believing in not making other people

[00:30:28] suffer my choices

[00:30:30] in a way that's

[00:30:32] unsustainable. So going to Spain

[00:30:34] quite a lot of work

[00:30:35] and the office is out there it's very difficult

[00:30:37] and then always

[00:30:39] go to the places that

[00:30:40] work for the rest of the team

[00:30:42] and I just thought

[00:30:45] it sort of became

[00:30:48] logical

[00:30:49] to not

[00:30:51] have that as something

[00:30:53] that was a barrier to the rest of my life

[00:30:55] because it impacted so many people

[00:30:57] and now since like I haven't actually returned

[00:31:01] to eating meat and fish

[00:31:03] daily in fact I still

[00:31:04] I'm still a plant based majority of the time

[00:31:07] but it's just that

[00:31:09] in certain countries

[00:31:10] like in that particular instance

[00:31:12] again you're going with people

[00:31:14] that don't know you and it's very

[00:31:16] difficult for them to find

[00:31:18] even ease of connection

[00:31:20] you're always trying to

[00:31:21] put yourself in the

[00:31:23] central point of the narrative

[00:31:25] it becomes a source of anxiety

[00:31:27] for other people and I think that's why

[00:31:29] I don't really feel comfortable doing to other people

[00:31:32] makes sense

[00:31:34] obviously not banter

[00:31:36] for fitting but

[00:31:37] I think it's

[00:31:39] a very good line

[00:31:42] I felt very seen and heard and recognised

[00:31:44] by you for once

[00:31:45] thank you

[00:31:47] for once

[00:31:51] you gave me

[00:31:52] affirmation Ryan

[00:31:53] is my laughing

[00:31:55] oh no I've started something

[00:31:58] I can't stop now

[00:32:00] there we go

[00:32:01] that wraps up another episode of the

[00:32:03] Digitools and the cruel world podcast

[00:32:04] I hope you enjoyed today's episode

[00:32:06] and of course as always

[00:32:08] we always want to hear from you in terms of

[00:32:10] comments, thoughts, ideas

[00:32:12] feedback is always greatly appreciated

[00:32:14] you can find us all on LinkedIn

[00:32:16] and you can find our pages and stuff on LinkedIn

[00:32:18] as well as YouTube and everywhere else

[00:32:21] and also just one final reminder

[00:32:22] we do have our digital disruptors awards

[00:32:25] imminently approaching

[00:32:26] and we'd love to see you there if the tickets are

[00:32:29] still available

[00:32:30] still on sale, we think it's going to be a cracking night

[00:32:32] and we look forward to see you there

[00:32:34] if you've already got your tickets

[00:32:35] so let's have a good full time

[00:32:37] and we'll also enjoy a cantex north as well