£9 Billion Missing for UK SMEs - PLUS App News, Dan Cockerton and Johann Goree

[00:00:00] That is so creepy.

[00:00:02] It's very creepy. John is not in charge of merch anymore.

[00:00:06] The Bank of England base rate currently today on 5th November is at 5%.

[00:00:11] Most of the traditional high street banks haven't been passing on that interest rate.

[00:00:15] Across the UK SMEs are missing out on £9 billion a year on interest currently being withheld from them.

[00:00:23] AdSum have a beta testing opportunity coming up on the 15th of November.

[00:00:27] Modular have released is Effortless Batch Management.

[00:00:31] Free Agent is saying goodbye to Snail Mail by speeding up your payroll administration with paperless HMRC notices.

[00:00:39] It's a time for the MTD gong to be hit again.

[00:00:42] Fan Check has made significant enhancements to their platform.

[00:00:46] Something that we've not really talked about much before which is Acumatica.

[00:00:50] Tide has made another acquisition of a SME payroll solution on Folk.

[00:00:56] People just ask weird things on LinkedIn, don't they?

[00:00:59] They're ginger walruses.

[00:01:00] There's ginger everything.

[00:01:01] Ginger nuts.

[00:01:03] We're men of science, so here's a science stat.

[00:01:05] The Antarctic walrus is a rather large dolphin.

[00:01:09] That's my facts for today. We need a little jingle for that.

[00:01:14] I'm not sure how we got to this point in our podcast, but anyway.

[00:01:18] We don't just have to look at any more at the big boys and hope that they're going to give us something exciting.

[00:01:23] Because actually, the space is getting very exciting with just the smaller boys playing in the game.

[00:01:28] Yeah.

[00:01:29] Who do you think might do a really good release in 24, 25?

[00:01:32] Everyone's hyped about AI.

[00:01:34] I have seen one bit of AI in practice management that makes me go, actually, that adds value.

[00:01:39] I would argue free agents' recent release of bank authorizations in bulk.

[00:01:44] That's got to be release of the year, right?

[00:01:45] As long as we do go faster stripes on the side and not one down the middle.

[00:01:48] Now I've got just a line of hair. It's the opposite.

[00:01:52] You've got a seam.

[00:01:53] I've got a seam that runs all the way down in the middle.

[00:01:56] At the bottom, I've got a tattoo of a zip.

[00:01:58] India stopped recording.

[00:02:00] Oh my God.

[00:02:01] It was that bombshell.

[00:02:02] It was that zip bombshell that did it.

[00:02:03] She's just like been fried.

[00:02:05] Welcome to another episode of the DigiTools in a Crew World podcast,

[00:02:08] brought to you, of course, by the Digital Disruptors.

[00:02:10] And of course, we will have the usual news updates, interviews,

[00:02:14] and nonsense that you get so accustomed to receiving nowadays.

[00:02:19] And of course, I'm joined by Ryan and Indy.

[00:02:22] So Indy, how's things? How's bath time? Is it due soon?

[00:02:29] I actually bought a new bath gel, bath bubble.

[00:02:35] I don't know what it's called. Anyway, it has ash...

[00:02:36] A bath gel. That sounds like something you wash the bath with.

[00:02:40] I don't know what it's called.

[00:02:41] You know, just something you put in the bath.

[00:02:42] Anyway, it has ashwagandha in it.

[00:02:46] I have no idea what that is.

[00:02:47] Right? I thought you would.

[00:02:49] Is that a politician?

[00:02:51] No.

[00:02:52] Oh.

[00:02:52] It's so rude.

[00:02:57] I don't know. It sounds like a name to me.

[00:03:00] Ashwagandha.

[00:03:01] I don't know, actually.

[00:03:02] I don't quite know what it actually is.

[00:03:04] Obviously, it's some sort of like plant-based thing.

[00:03:06] But I know that it's like you can have it as a supplement or you usually have it like in some sort of orally taken substance.

[00:03:17] So now you're drinking your own bath water.

[00:03:19] Is that what you're saying?

[00:03:19] No, I am not.

[00:03:20] No.

[00:03:20] But I was quite curious about what it meant because it's really super relaxing.

[00:03:26] And I have to admit, yeah, I was...

[00:03:28] I wanted to fall asleep in the bath.

[00:03:31] It was great.

[00:03:31] I was chill.

[00:03:32] Isn't it dangerous to sleep in the bath?

[00:03:36] I sleep in the bath.

[00:03:37] Not all the time.

[00:03:39] But like I do fall asleep in the bath sometimes.

[00:03:41] Not out of choice.

[00:03:42] It's been chucked out.

[00:03:44] He said, he's sleeping in the bath.

[00:03:46] I sleep in the bath with water in.

[00:03:48] I don't sleep in the bath out of choice.

[00:03:52] But you drown.

[00:03:53] In terms of like I take a pillow and a blanket with me.

[00:03:55] No.

[00:03:56] Like, it's just a thing.

[00:04:00] Like you don't slip under the water.

[00:04:01] And if you do slip under the water, surprising enough, there's like a thing called life that your body wants to hold on to.

[00:04:08] I don't think I've ever thought about falling asleep in the bath and actually falling asleep.

[00:04:12] I've never met anyone that's done that.

[00:04:14] You can get like inflatable bath pillows and everything.

[00:04:17] Why don't you just go to bed, John?

[00:04:20] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Because like if you have a bath at like sort of eight o'clock at night for a couple of hours and you don't want to go to bed, it's cool.

[00:04:26] A couple of hours.

[00:04:29] This is, Indy, this is like your, you know, running the bath water to then let it go cold so you get a cold shower.

[00:04:36] John starts hot, but by the time it's freezing.

[00:04:40] Oh no, I recycle the bath water.

[00:04:42] If it starts to go cold, you just top it up.

[00:04:44] I thought you might use it every night.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:48] I can't afford the water bill so I just keep doing it.

[00:04:51] It's like, you know, those things you see on Instagram where they put those like really hot metal balls and like liquids.

[00:04:57] That's what I do with the bath basically every night.

[00:04:59] Wow.

[00:05:01] That is, that is really good for your carbon footprint.

[00:05:04] Well done, John.

[00:05:05] Well done, John.

[00:05:06] Thank you.

[00:05:07] I did think given that, given that we did get a comment from someone who is quite interested in your bath activities, Indy.

[00:05:14] I once went to somewhere in Australia where they, where there was a site which was very, very precious or sort of sacred to the, to the local Aboriginal population.

[00:05:25] And they used to give away little vials of water.

[00:05:29] So I wonder if we should do that after every time you have a bath and we could sort of like have, you know, DigiTools bath water for you Indy, put in little vials and we could, you know, that could be like our swag that we give away.

[00:05:40] That is so creepy.

[00:05:42] It's very creepy.

[00:05:43] I think John is, let's take John off merch.

[00:05:46] John is not in charge of merch anymore.

[00:05:48] I think John is just trying to find a way to recycle my bath water.

[00:05:54] He's that desperate to not, yeah, not use, not run his own bath.

[00:05:59] He is now collecting bath water from other people.

[00:06:02] More vials of bath water.

[00:06:04] This should be shipped to John too.

[00:06:07] I mean, to be fair, like I guess in the, in the, in the good old days, right, people didn't used to keep rerunning the bath and the whole family would be in the tub outside in the back garden.

[00:06:16] So, you know, this is, it's just a collective, collective bath time opportunity for the co-presenters of the party.

[00:06:22] The good old days.

[00:06:27] When, when, when was this?

[00:06:29] Was this like last week up in the north?

[00:06:30] When was this?

[00:06:32] Yeah, actually, we're coming up to winter.

[00:06:35] So that bath time's died off now.

[00:06:37] So like, yeah.

[00:06:39] Make me don't wash our winter.

[00:06:40] It's only a summer thing.

[00:06:43] No, when we were, when we were young, we didn't have as much money back then.

[00:06:49] Um, but we did used to recycle the bath water, not by letting everyone else go in it, but instead we would then put things like, uh, let's say like a duvet.

[00:07:01] It was like something is complex to wash.

[00:07:03] And then you would then put it in like the very thick blanket and you'd ask a load of like, um, the, the washing powder in that.

[00:07:12] And so after we'd have a bath and we would just run up and down the, like the, whatever it would be, the thick blanket, the duvet, the something.

[00:07:21] And then that would get the wash that way as well.

[00:07:24] So, um, did you wee in the bath?

[00:07:28] No, of course not.

[00:07:29] Gosh, we had a mum that was super strict.

[00:07:31] Can you imagine doing that?

[00:07:33] You don't want to get, you didn't want to get bruised bottom afterwards.

[00:07:37] No.

[00:07:38] It's good for your skin.

[00:07:39] And if you're going to wash things in it, you might as well do that as well.

[00:07:41] What's good for your skin?

[00:07:43] Urea.

[00:07:46] Oh, you know, John, I'm now learning that you not only recycle your bath water, but you pee in it as well.

[00:07:54] I didn't say I peed in it.

[00:07:55] I just asked you if you peed in it.

[00:07:58] I just, I'm not very...

[00:08:00] Just, just, just to clarify this, John is asking if you pee in your bath water because he wants vials of it.

[00:08:09] Oh, that's what you understood.

[00:08:10] I don't understand that.

[00:08:12] It's nice.

[00:08:13] It's not, I'm quite curious as to what you're asking for here, John.

[00:08:17] Are you asking for bath water that has urea in so that we can help you with your skin?

[00:08:23] Or are you asking that...

[00:08:27] I just tried.

[00:08:28] I've lost track.

[00:08:29] I think it's safe to move on with apnoos now.

[00:08:33] Well, I mean, I really just, just wondering, just wondering, you know, and if you're going to clean things in the bath afterwards, I mean, it's, it's quite good for cleaning.

[00:08:40] But after all, it was used for tanning.

[00:08:46] Maybe that's where I've been going wrong.

[00:08:47] I've been trying to tan in the sun.

[00:08:50] My melanin is natural.

[00:08:52] So I don't...

[00:08:55] Indie gets other people to pee in the bath for sure she goes in.

[00:09:02] There's something wrong with you.

[00:09:04] Let's go to apnoos.

[00:09:04] It's very wrong.

[00:09:06] Anyway, Ryan, how are you before we go on to apnoos?

[00:09:09] No, no, no.

[00:09:10] I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm mentally scarred now.

[00:09:12] Straight to apnoos.

[00:09:12] I don't want to talk.

[00:09:13] But apnoos.

[00:09:14] Yeah, apnoos.

[00:09:21] Amazing.

[00:09:22] Right.

[00:09:22] I, well, I'm kicking off apnoos today and we have an update from AdSum, which may or may not be familiar to people because I think they've kind of got it baked into a couple of products.

[00:09:32] I'm pretty sure they have a link to QBO and I'm trying to think what the other thing is that are linked to, but a tie.

[00:09:39] That's the other product that are linked to.

[00:09:41] But AdSum have announced they have a beta testing opportunity coming up on the 15th of November.

[00:09:48] So a few weeks away for their new pay as you earn tracking sort of dashboard and functionality that they're building out.

[00:09:55] So AdSum have something already in place for VAT.

[00:09:58] In fact, that's kind of where they started out from because their whole thing is, is that if you're a business that regularly reclaims VAT from HMRC, you can actually go through AdSum and you can, you can get your payment almost immediately.

[00:10:11] Sometimes it takes a couple of days, but you get it basically quicker than you'll get it back from HMRC.

[00:10:16] And the cost of doing that is 2%, so 2% of your refund.

[00:10:19] So, you know, we've seen these kind of pricing models for different types of refunds and things in other places.

[00:10:25] But this is, this is sort of the first technology driven one, I think that for taxation, at least that we've seen.

[00:10:31] And, and like I say, they have these dashboards that are available for practices to use.

[00:10:35] So you could see all of your clients, see all of the outstanding payments and the rolling this out into pay as you earn now.

[00:10:41] Which I can tell you now is quite a challenging thing to get across because quite often it's difficult to collect all of that information in one place.

[00:10:48] So having this in one central dashboard seems like a good idea, particularly if I guess if you're managing lots of payrolls, you might want to be able to see this and gives you an element of proactivity about contacting clients and customers to help them keep on top of things.

[00:11:03] Yeah, I think the, the POA bits quite promising.

[00:11:07] I think when they released the VAT tracking, they said POA was in the works and I was like, well, that'd be quite powerful bringing both POA and the VAT into the same platform.

[00:11:17] Now one login for your staff to go in and verify data for your client.

[00:11:22] So yes, this bit, I'm intrigued.

[00:11:25] Once it gets through beta, I think I'm going to be having a bit of play and see, is this something that's going to add value to our compliance teams?

[00:11:32] Well, I've got something from modular. I think when we were talking to Kaylee the other day on interview, she talked about modular, talked about what it's been doing in the space and the fact it's been connected into multiple other platforms now.

[00:11:44] And they've continued to release features. So the recent feature they have released is effortless batch management.

[00:11:52] So if you are doing batch payments, you can now do batch approvals.

[00:11:57] So find everything in one place, all of your batches you created, locate them, filter them and manage them across, I guess, all of your batches you created inside the system.

[00:12:08] And then if you need to export them all in one go, this is something that I guess I would advise against.

[00:12:16] If you're using an integrated payment system, you should be connecting it directly into your bank so that you've got the full audit trail, fully locked down.

[00:12:23] As soon as you start exporting information, then it is open to manipulation.

[00:12:27] So connect into your platforms, do not export if you can, but the new batch approvals will make it easier if you're using modular.

[00:12:34] And something from the friendliest accounting technology company, FreeAgent is saying goodbye to snail mail by speeding up your payroll administration with paperless HMRC notices.

[00:12:47] So in order to do this, you'll need to enable electronic notifications in your HMRC business tax account.

[00:12:55] So you only need to do that once.

[00:12:56] But the advantage is, and you can go to your free agent account, and you can automatically receive updates on the tax codes and the notices around tax codes.

[00:13:09] So you can both update them in the free agent software, and then you can approve the new changes to the tax code within your free agent software.

[00:13:22] So instead of waiting for, historically waiting for the post to come through and seeing a change to the tax code, you can all do that.

[00:13:29] So you can do that through electronic means and the free agent platform.

[00:13:35] Very exciting.

[00:13:36] And I have some more HMRC updates.

[00:13:41] And, you know, it's a time for the the MTD gong to be hit again, given that we're now talking about this, because there are two pieces of guidance.

[00:13:50] One is about the MTD for income tax program, and one is about multi-agent access to accounts, which I know is particularly tricky, you know, for accountants, bookkeepers, etc.

[00:14:02] Especially if you've got some specialist tax advisor involved who needs to have access to accounts and things because it just makes life really difficult.

[00:14:09] So the updates on the MTD for income tax things is that, you know, basically they're confirming the current timeline that has been set in stone will be will be will be fixed.

[00:14:21] There is expected to be no further slippage in that.

[00:14:24] And they also announced a couple of extra software products being added into into the beta testing, which I know some firms and some practices have been signed up to.

[00:14:35] I don't think we're doing it, but it's coming.

[00:14:37] There are also some notifications and some additional information out there on the HMRC website and for people who are logging into their personal tax accounts going to give them notifications around the fact that MTD for income tax is coming, which I think has been probably long overdue, really, from a lot of accountants and bookkeepers point of view in terms of, you know, it feels like it's us who are having to provide all of the marketing and comms on MTD rather than HMRC.

[00:15:05] So seeing that come out is is a welcome, welcome addition.

[00:15:10] And then the thing about the multi agent update is that basically this is going out to software developers to allow them the support and functionality to build this into products.

[00:15:20] Again, this is kind of linked to the MTD for income tax program, and it's really currently in a sandbox stage.

[00:15:25] So it's not something we're going to be seeing imminently, but it will come into, I guess, probably the beta program that's been run.

[00:15:31] And then in the longer term, we'll start to see this.

[00:15:34] So this is this is great news for anyone involved and effectively will expect to see essentially two roles.

[00:15:41] There'll be the main agent who has access to kind of pretty much everything in the agent account and then a supporting agent who will have more limited access to say just being able to submit an in-year update or do something else.

[00:15:52] And I guess the really important thing about this for MTD is that, you know, you could potentially have a bookkeeper who's doing the bookkeeping and providing the quarterly updates.

[00:16:01] But you might have an accountant, for example, who does the end of your personal tax return and does that kind of final submission process.

[00:16:06] And so both both both people are going to have to be involved in this process.

[00:16:10] But without having that dual access, it's going to be really difficult to manage.

[00:16:13] Good. And there's something from firm check who have continued to make the AML compliance piece more manageable and intuitive for their customers.

[00:16:25] So in this case, firm check has made significant enhancements to their platform in recent months.

[00:16:34] And we covered firm check on the last podcast when we were talking about some of the things where it pertains to onboarding in the AML compliance piece.

[00:16:42] In this case, they've unified the compliance management piece by having different pillars all brought together into the new platform.

[00:16:51] And that includes things like the ability to maintain and update firm wide risk assessments, conduct and document risk client risk assessments consistently, consistently manage policies, controls and procedure documentation, track AML training records and complete ongoing client reviews and updates, as well as documenting and having a clear audit trail of all those documents.

[00:17:15] So the way that they've gone about reimagining the platform is through a more seamless user experience.

[00:17:23] So there's a better UI that they've got a better UI that they've put in place.

[00:17:28] And on top of that, they've taken a step into advanced workflow management.

[00:17:33] So they've got more of a visual element where you have like multiple teams or individuals that need to be involved so that you can track things in that Kanban style.

[00:17:43] And more like a one click access to records and also clear status tracking for compliance activities.

[00:17:52] So you can manage it from like a to do in progress, in review, et cetera, across the team.

[00:17:58] And then on top of that, they've also built out these the risk management piece of the AML compliance side.

[00:18:05] So you have smart firm wide risk assessments automatically incorporating data from individual client risk assessments to help you build and document your firm wide view.

[00:18:17] And you've also got customizable risk assessment templates and then flexible drag and drop templates for different client types.

[00:18:26] And then on top of that, they are looking at how to enhance the integration and monitoring piece so that they can reduce the administrative burden on pulling relevant company information from several platforms.

[00:18:43] So the platform offers free PEP sanctions and adverse media checks, which is fairly unique in the industry.

[00:18:50] And but then they also are looking at automated monitoring of the PEP sanctions and they are developing the company's house monitoring capabilities as well as their planning to integrate into the practice management.

[00:19:07] And so it's something that we spoke about on the last podcast.

[00:19:09] And so I think all that to say, from firm checks perspective, fairly comprehensive, the latest batch of releases expands on their capability have to have all of that compliance suite in the same place, clearer oversight across the firm and just better organization of all the compliance documents, as well as more efficient team collaboration and an audit trail for all your compliance needs.

[00:19:36] So it's a really, it seems like a massive step forward in that for firm check.

[00:19:42] And also the fact that they're looking at that practice management space will take them a lot further in terms of, I guess, being able to fulfill the whole product need for accountants.

[00:19:54] Yeah, I guess it sounds like the system had evolved over time, but everything would become a bit disjointed.

[00:19:59] So they've kind of bundled it all together with a new user interface, which has allowed them to release one hell of a lot of new functionality.

[00:20:06] And as we had discussed and you said, connecting to other platforms more easily.

[00:20:11] So, yeah, that was a lot, a lot that firm check have done.

[00:20:15] Well done, firm check on the release of the new platform.

[00:20:18] Right. Well, I've got something from a completely different place, something that we've not really talked about much before, which is Acumatica, which is a cloud based ERP system.

[00:20:28] Now, they focus on construction, distribution, retail, manufacturing, and they are releasing a new professional services element as well.

[00:20:36] In the new 2024 R2 release, which I guess is their big announcement, focusing mostly on the construction side, they've brought in substantiated billing enhancements.

[00:20:46] So they've restructured how their billing platform works.

[00:20:50] They've also brought in the additional project quote statuses.

[00:20:55] So tweaking what you can do, customizing those, making it easier for you to manage through the lifecycle of a project.

[00:21:01] And you've got pro forma invoices in the system as well.

[00:21:05] So I don't know if you've looked at Acumatica before.

[00:21:09] The look and feel is a bit traditional, probably one of the earliest in the space.

[00:21:14] I would have thought they would have done more with the UI on their release, but all of the screenshots that they've shared with the release are very traditional.

[00:21:20] So I think it's more functionality.

[00:21:21] And the way they talk about this is that the new way that these releases operate means that they can link functions they couldn't do before.

[00:21:32] So going through from, I guess, with the substantiated billing side, with the pro forma invoicing as well, means that elements that couldn't interact now can because of the way they've developed this in the R2 release.

[00:21:46] As you know, I love talking about anything in this banking space, in particular to do with some of the new banks that have been making some waves.

[00:21:59] Last year, we spoke about Tide acquiring funding options and Tide has made another acquisition of a semi payroll solution on folk with integrations for accounting, pensions and people systems.

[00:22:17] So it's quite an interesting move because Tide has already had beyond banking services that encompasses like some levels of bookkeeping, invoicing.

[00:22:32] And so now to see them taking an application like on folk and running it as a division of Tide, which will be Tide payroll.

[00:22:41] It will connect to all of the other Tide products that are like the finance and admin solutions on folk is in HMRC recognized payroll software.

[00:22:51] And so it generates payslips and has intuitive explanations for them.

[00:22:58] Other features include the automation of tax code notices and pension allocations and the storage of payroll documents.

[00:23:05] So I think that there'll be a good synergy there.

[00:23:08] Tide has got roughly 650,000 UK businesses and tend to be very small and obviously work.

[00:23:18] I imagine for the way that this app has grown on folk, that there's a really good fit.

[00:23:26] It was a Y Combinator graduate.

[00:23:30] So on folk is something that has a good natural fit with what Tide has offered.

[00:23:36] But I've never really seen the beyond banking services that Tide offer really rolled out in anger.

[00:23:46] So it will be, I think, a very interesting way of seeing whether the neobank's customers do tend to want to stick with some of these services that are introduced.

[00:23:58] The strategy seems to be grow it through acquisition rather than trying to build it themselves.

[00:24:05] So I was aware that actually this was something that Tide had worked on.

[00:24:08] And they've got several different divisions of product managers work on these types of services.

[00:24:14] They've obviously taken a different stance with the payroll piece, rightly so, because they need to have an expert on it.

[00:24:21] And it looks like these guys have at least got their house in order to get something that's HMRC approved and recognized.

[00:24:28] So really good synergy and great to see it.

[00:24:33] Yeah, fascinating deal, this, I think, isn't it?

[00:24:35] Because OnFolk is not a product that I was really familiar with.

[00:24:43] But interestingly, on their LinkedIn profile, they count Comma as a customer, which is fascinating.

[00:24:50] So a bit of a link into space that we know very well.

[00:24:54] And no details on numbers, I don't think.

[00:24:57] Is there any announcement indeed that we can see?

[00:24:59] There's quite a small team there, I think, isn't it?

[00:25:02] There's not.

[00:25:03] But I would say that having understood a little bit of that world and given that it's fairly new, i.e. that it's Y Combinator, I think it graduated.

[00:25:18] 2021, isn't it?

[00:25:19] Right, okay.

[00:25:20] So I don't, and we haven't heard much of OnFolk.

[00:25:23] So my probably intuition on that would say deferred consideration is going to be a big part of the commercial structure of that.

[00:25:35] And it makes sense because Tizen has already acquired a shed ton of users.

[00:25:43] So for OnFolk and the fact that they can then monetize it more effectively, pushing those originated users through OnFolk as the product and then getting some additional revenue that way, it will be a really good synergy.

[00:25:59] Because then they've built the tech and they need to then monetize the users by increasing that average value per user.

[00:26:09] So I think it's probably won and lost in that deferred consideration piece, I reckon.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:18] I mean, I guess, you know, in the context of the previous, you know, app news that we did where we talked about, you know, payroll site going out of business.

[00:26:25] We talked about some of the consolidations, bits and pieces happening.

[00:26:28] So, you know, new people still coming into the market.

[00:26:31] So, yeah, there's clearly differing opinions and opportunities, right?

[00:26:37] It's quite crazy, isn't it?

[00:26:38] Payroll site took the stance of shutting things down and they had multi-award winning software, which was voted for by their users.

[00:26:48] And it makes you think, why don't they just try and sell it to a neobank?

[00:26:53] Yeah.

[00:26:54] Maybe they didn't know that that would have been an option.

[00:26:57] No, they have it.

[00:27:00] Well, there you go.

[00:27:01] That wraps our app news, doesn't it?

[00:27:04] Amazing.

[00:27:04] It really does.

[00:27:09] Well, I'm delighted to be joined by Sophie Hasak, who is the head of partnerships at Alica Bank.

[00:27:14] And this is a series of four recordings that we're going to do with Sophie, which are going to be released into the pod over a series of weeks.

[00:27:22] Just covering a number of topics that Alica has spotted, a number of trends that they've identified in the marketplace.

[00:27:27] And also some key things, I guess, really just to remind accountants and bookkeepers of the importance of banking relationships and why Alica is the fastest growing bank in the UK.

[00:27:37] And it seems to be hitting at the top of every single table going that there is in terms of metrics.

[00:27:42] So, Sophie, I'm delighted to have you on and really nice to have you with us.

[00:27:46] How are things?

[00:27:48] Yeah, thanks for letting me join you.

[00:27:49] It's been really good.

[00:27:50] Things are really good.

[00:27:51] Yeah, you're right.

[00:27:52] It's been a really mad year, actually, to be honest.

[00:27:56] So we've been able to fastest growing fintech in the UK of all time ever, which is just remarkable if you think about how many fast growth fintechs there have been in the UK over the last 10 years.

[00:28:05] And we're also named the most fastest growing privately owned company this year as well.

[00:28:10] So, yeah, it's been big.

[00:28:12] It's not bad.

[00:28:13] It's not bad.

[00:28:14] Like I say, you're topping all of the tables, which is incredible.

[00:28:17] So really exciting.

[00:28:19] And we're going to be covering today the importance of savings, particularly for SMEs and businesses.

[00:28:25] And this headline figure that you guys have identified that UK businesses are missing out on about $9 billion in interest on their savings.

[00:28:33] So can we kind of dive into that?

[00:28:35] Why is it that SMEs and businesses that have money held in accounts with maybe high street banks or other competitors are not receiving a higher rate of interest?

[00:28:47] What are the factors that have an effect on this?

[00:28:50] I think it's really important to understand the context as to why this has happened.

[00:28:54] So clearly for the last well over a decade, we've been working and operating in a really low interest environment.

[00:29:00] So businesses, accountants, bookkeepers, even consumers got out of the habit of thinking about savings because they didn't really earn any interest at all on cash sitting within their current accounts.

[00:29:11] Now, clearly over the last two years, that has changed.

[00:29:13] The Bank of England base rate increased significantly.

[00:29:15] And suddenly that became a really important topic.

[00:29:19] Now, what we've seen is that the vast majority of SMEs still haven't been earning any interest or much interest at all on their cash balances sitting in their current accounts.

[00:29:28] So if the Bank of England base rate currently today on 5th of November is at 5%, the next meeting is on the 7th of November.

[00:29:36] So that's the big caveat.

[00:29:39] Actually, most of the traditional high street banks haven't been increasing or passing on that interest rate to their customers.

[00:29:45] Now, what we found is that the challenger banks have been doing that or more of them have been doing that.

[00:29:50] You know, at Allaka, our interest rates have been increasing over the last 12 months particularly.

[00:29:54] So currently at 4.33% in the instant access savings spot for the variable rate.

[00:30:01] So SMEs are missing out typically on at least 3%.

[00:30:05] Now, that becomes really meaningful to SMEs, but also on a monthly basis as that grows and regionally.

[00:30:14] So as you said, we found that nationally across the UK, SMEs are missing out on £9 billion a year on interest they could have been earning.

[00:30:23] It's currently being withheld from them.

[00:30:25] That's huge.

[00:30:26] That's a massive number.

[00:30:28] And like all big numbers, sometimes it's really hard to digest them and actually think, well, what does that mean practically?

[00:30:35] And so we at Allaka look a lot at the regions.

[00:30:38] You know, we really support SMEs throughout the UK.

[00:30:41] It's really important to us.

[00:30:43] We're actually able to look at basically pick a town, any town in the UK, and we can find out on average approximately how much those customers are missing out on.

[00:30:53] And that becomes really important when you think about the local economy, the regional society and the impact it can have.

[00:31:00] So for £9 billion, I guess, for SMEs in lost interest is fairly substantial.

[00:31:04] But what does that work out in the Manchester region, for example?

[00:31:08] And how does that approximate on a pair business basis as well?

[00:31:11] Yeah.

[00:31:11] So for Manchester in particular, for SMEs, and we're really looking at Allaka, SMEs between 5 and 250 employees.

[00:31:19] That's our sweet spot as an established business.

[00:31:21] But for SMEs in Manchester, they're missing out annually on £39 million a year.

[00:31:27] So that's significant, right?

[00:31:29] When you think about making decisions around employment, when you think about making decisions around opening up other either product lines or channels or even offices regionally,

[00:31:41] that actually could have a significant impact on the SMEs making those decisions if they were able to earn more on their cash currently.

[00:31:48] To give some context, I also looked at Milton Keynes, and that's quite a similar number, but that's £26.5 million.

[00:31:53] So really, it's significant.

[00:31:57] On average, per SME, it's over £2,300 a year that they're missing out on.

[00:32:03] And again, when you're thinking about, well, what does that number mean?

[00:32:06] What impact can they have?

[00:32:07] We talk a lot to our customers about what would they do with that benefit?

[00:32:12] How would they use that extra cash?

[00:32:14] What are they putting it towards?

[00:32:16] We've had some great examples, and one customer is using it now to pay for private medical insurance for his employees.

[00:32:23] He wasn't doing it before, but he wanted to improve his offer as an employer.

[00:32:27] He's done that, so I think that's great.

[00:32:29] Actually, one of our accountants is putting that money towards their social contribution,

[00:32:35] their annual social contribution towards the charity donations that they do.

[00:32:38] And again, I think that's fantastic.

[00:32:40] So really understanding how businesses can use that extra money and what impact that has for their business is kind of interesting,

[00:32:46] but also important for us.

[00:32:49] Yeah, exactly.

[00:32:49] And I guess, again, in the context of the budget, we saw employers' national insurance increases alongside a modest increase in the employment allowance as well.

[00:33:01] But yeah, an extra £2,300 per business is not to be sniffed at, is there?

[00:33:06] And that goes some way to offsetting some of those impacts.

[00:33:09] Absolutely. And as an accountant in particular, you know, looking at your client base and thinking about where can you have conversations that can instantly add interest,

[00:33:19] instantly add value, you can see a cash balance sitting there.

[00:33:22] And then you can help them say, actually, no, you know, you're not earning very much.

[00:33:26] There are alternatives in the market where you can put money aside and it can have a better growth opportunity for you.

[00:33:32] That's quite a practical, but also quite a tactical conversation for accountants to be able to have.

[00:33:38] We've also seen that accountants in particular are looking at helping customers and understand putting money aside for their tax bill.

[00:33:45] So actually starting to earn money on that set aside.

[00:33:48] That's a really good opportunity as well for them to have that conversation.

[00:33:52] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:33:53] And you briefly mentioned in the intro that, you know, we're expecting the Bank of England to meet in a couple of days.

[00:34:00] And I think it's reasonably well forecast that the rates, that the Bank of England rate will drop by sort of a quarter of a percent.

[00:34:09] So I guess the ability for Alica and others to pass on rates and to pass that margin on is even more important.

[00:34:17] Again, if we are going to start seeing a little bit of a haircut in terms of headline rates.

[00:34:22] Yeah. So the Bank of England, they met at the beginning of August and they reduced the rate to five percent.

[00:34:28] And actually Alica didn't change the rate that we passed on.

[00:34:32] So we maintained it at 4.33 percent.

[00:34:34] We've spent a lot of the last 18 months really campaigning and championing this idea around the saving squeeze and the impact it has on businesses,

[00:34:41] but also the opportunity you should be able to provide to them.

[00:34:44] And we've been working in partnership with the likes of Federation of Small Businesses and the IOD as well on this.

[00:34:49] So there are a lot of organizations in collaboration thinking actually SMEs should be getting a better deal, which is great.

[00:34:56] So, yeah, anytime the Bank of England does make a change, our rates are variable.

[00:35:00] So we have the option to change it, but we didn't earlier in the summer.

[00:35:05] Interesting. Interesting.

[00:35:07] And, you know, do you think SMEs in general are aware that, you know, there are alternatives in the market, you know,

[00:35:14] not just from a business accounting point of view, but even that, you know, that there are accounts that pay higher rates of interest?

[00:35:19] I mean, we started to see sort of these kind of, I guess, these kind of pooled accounts where you could put money aside and that would be invested in accounts that would pay higher rates.

[00:35:28] And that's particularly popular in the charitable sector.

[00:35:30] But I don't think there's much awareness in the SME space around that kind of concept in general or the fact that people like yourselves are offering, you know, genuinely, considerably higher rates, essentially.

[00:35:39] Yeah, I don't think there is.

[00:35:41] And there are a few reasons for that, right?

[00:35:43] One is in the main, customers aren't used to talking to their banks.

[00:35:48] So they're actually no longer used to having a dialogue that's two way.

[00:35:52] So they're not really aware of what else is happening in the market necessarily.

[00:35:57] Most people don't wake up every day thinking about their bank account.

[00:36:02] Most people, we in the bank do, but the vast majority of SMEs don't wake up every morning and think, gosh, what's my bank account doing for me?

[00:36:10] And that's the role that the accountant can play on a monthly or quarterly basis, particularly looking at building it into the reviews that they're having.

[00:36:17] And to make sure that people are aware that there are opportunities to be better rewarded, that's the first thing, understanding.

[00:36:24] But the second thing is it feels like a complicated thing, right?

[00:36:28] It feels like a piece of admin that's just going to take time, that's going to be frustrating.

[00:36:33] So most people will put it in the too hard basket and it will just be deprioritized on that to-do list.

[00:36:38] But actually a lot of the challenger banks, it's a much quicker process to be onboarded.

[00:36:44] It's a much quicker process to be experienced and to have an account set up.

[00:36:49] So it isn't in the main for lots of banks, including us, a struggle to be onboarded.

[00:36:55] It's actually a really quick process.

[00:36:56] So that's the second part of that kind of decision making about do you know about it?

[00:37:01] And then do you do something about it?

[00:37:03] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:37:04] I think that's great.

[00:37:05] And I mean, there's plenty of food for thought there for SMEs, but also accountants and bookkeepers advising SMEs there.

[00:37:12] If people are interested in finding out a bit more about Alica or maybe getting in contact with yourself, Sophie, how do they go about doing that?

[00:37:19] Yeah, you can come to our website.

[00:37:20] So our website has a whole lot of information about all the different products that we have in our approach to working with different types of businesses.

[00:37:26] And also we've got a particular email address directly for accountants.

[00:37:29] So if you're interested in learning more, particularly for your clients, drop us an email at accountants at alica.bank.

[00:37:37] Perfect.

[00:37:38] Perfect.

[00:37:38] And I love the fact that you teased us a little bit for one of our future episodes, which is talking about that human relationship in banking, which we'll talk about in another session shortly.

[00:37:48] But thank you very much, Sophie.

[00:37:50] That was really great.

[00:37:50] And as I said, for anyone listening to the podcast, you'll be able to hear a little bit more from Sophie and about Alica and about the things that they're trying to do differently in the marketplace.

[00:38:00] That once was a wonderful John Toon who had an arse like a baboon and sat on a stick.

[00:38:08] I can't say the next bit.

[00:38:11] I can't possibly say the next bit.

[00:38:13] I think you have to say the next bit, Indy.

[00:38:15] I think that's mad that she...

[00:38:16] I'm wiping on my limerick.

[00:38:18] I've got so far.

[00:38:20] You have no other line.

[00:38:22] I feel like you're taking the mick.

[00:38:25] Small mick.

[00:38:26] Very small mick.

[00:38:28] A little angry man syndrome.

[00:38:30] Ryan, why was somebody asking about my bath routine?

[00:38:34] As I said, there's nothing more to see other than a walrus flopping into the local water pool.

[00:38:39] I don't know.

[00:38:40] People just ask weird things on LinkedIn, don't they?

[00:38:42] I just thought it was a weird comment on our latest trailer for the podcast.

[00:38:49] You know, it's the same.

[00:38:50] You can go on to a David Attenborough documentary and pretty much do the same.

[00:38:55] Walruses are Indian.

[00:38:57] Are there ginger walruses?

[00:38:59] Yes.

[00:39:00] There's definitely a ginger walrus.

[00:39:03] There's ginger everything.

[00:39:04] Ginger nuts.

[00:39:05] Walruses.

[00:39:06] Are there northern walruses?

[00:39:07] I think all walruses are northern, aren't they?

[00:39:10] Actually, no.

[00:39:12] Surely there's some in Antarctica.

[00:39:14] So John's the Antarctic.

[00:39:15] But it's also cold.

[00:39:16] He's quite cold-hearted as well.

[00:39:18] You're the Antarctic walrus.

[00:39:21] The Antarctic.

[00:39:21] I think you said I'm cold-hearted.

[00:39:22] Wow.

[00:39:24] Wow.

[00:39:24] That's solid gold banter right there, Andy.

[00:39:29] Jesus.

[00:39:29] I'm going to jump in with the science stats that John normally does.

[00:39:34] Well, we are men of science.

[00:39:36] We are.

[00:39:37] We're men of science.

[00:39:38] So here's a science stat.

[00:39:39] The Antarctic walrus is a rather large dolphin.

[00:39:43] I mean, I don't know how that's a walrus, but there you go.

[00:39:46] That's my facts for today.

[00:39:48] We need a little jingle for that.

[00:39:49] Well, I'm the Indian walrus, which I assume exists.

[00:39:53] Of course.

[00:39:55] That's you.

[00:39:56] Yes.

[00:39:57] I'm not sure there is an Indian walrus per se.

[00:40:01] Is there an Indian walrus?

[00:40:02] Let me find.

[00:40:03] Well, there is the ginger walrus, which lives in the Indianapolis Zoo.

[00:40:08] Does that count?

[00:40:09] No, that's you.

[00:40:11] Oh.

[00:40:12] I'm actually looking at a picture of walrus.

[00:40:14] They look quite ginger.

[00:40:16] Kind of orangey.

[00:40:17] Anyway, I think that's what it, you know, if anyone wants to know what it really looks

[00:40:22] like to see me line an ambient bath, just imagine that, really.

[00:40:28] It's quite as simple as the ambient bath.

[00:40:30] Oh, wait.

[00:40:31] I found an Indian walrus.

[00:40:33] There is a popular publication in India called The Walrus.

[00:40:38] Wow.

[00:40:40] Wow.

[00:40:41] And what does the aforementioned popular publication do?

[00:40:46] Or produce?

[00:40:47] It looks like it's political.

[00:40:48] No, health and politics.

[00:40:50] You know, those two combine.

[00:40:51] Wow.

[00:40:52] That's a winning combo.

[00:40:53] That is health and politics.

[00:40:54] Yeah.

[00:40:55] I'm not sure how we got to this point in our podcast.

[00:40:58] But anyway.

[00:41:00] Yeah.

[00:41:00] I think it's because we left you in charge of the banter.

[00:41:04] So that's so untrue.

[00:41:05] I'd started with the limerick and I thought that was good enough.

[00:41:09] And then Ryan compliments me on my lovely accounting, excellent outfit, which...

[00:41:15] I'm not sure he was complimenting you on the outfit.

[00:41:18] What?

[00:41:18] He was complimenting you on the things that he noticed in the absence of the outfit.

[00:41:22] There was nothing in the absence of the outfit, John.

[00:41:25] It was a great suit.

[00:41:26] Which one were there?

[00:41:27] I don't remember sequins.

[00:41:29] There were no sequins.

[00:41:29] You should have had sequins.

[00:41:31] That's what I mean.

[00:41:31] There wasn't any sequins.

[00:41:33] They were in absence.

[00:41:35] Well, you know.

[00:41:36] Feather boa.

[00:41:37] Sorry.

[00:41:38] I was going with...

[00:41:39] Gloves.

[00:41:41] Our interpretation of what a bold demeanor means is obviously very different.

[00:41:46] That's what we were highlighting.

[00:41:48] Oh, yes.

[00:41:48] Bold demeanor was my velvet green suit.

[00:41:53] And Ryan's bold demeanor is go faster stripes carved into the side of his remaining hair.

[00:42:01] That's it.

[00:42:02] Yeah.

[00:42:02] As long as we do go faster stripes on the side and not one down the middle.

[00:42:07] No, I've got just a line of hair.

[00:42:09] It's the opposite.

[00:42:10] It's the opposite.

[00:42:11] You've got a seam.

[00:42:12] I've got a seam that runs all the way down in the middle.

[00:42:15] At the bottom, I've got two of a zip.

[00:42:17] Is it a YKK zip?

[00:42:20] Given that they make something like 99.99% of all zips in the world.

[00:42:25] India stopped recording.

[00:42:27] Oh, my God.

[00:42:28] It was that bombshell.

[00:42:29] It was that zip bombshell that did it.

[00:42:30] She's just like been fried.

[00:42:36] The Digital Work Antony Show was nominated tonight as one of the Digital Marketing of the Year.

[00:42:43] And that was because from the judges' feedback, everyone said this is like a really great example

[00:42:49] of marketing, you know, it's not just one level of being able to go there on the day and network.

[00:42:57] But all of the work that you do in the run up, all of the work that you do post the show,

[00:43:02] the way that you engage, the way you present content, you must be so proud of what you've built as an asset.

[00:43:08] And you must like in terms of like where you go from here, what are your thoughts?

[00:43:12] Like, where do you think that like, how do you raise the bar again?

[00:43:15] Yeah.

[00:43:15] Well, first of all, we have an amazing community.

[00:43:18] We have amazing accounting, bookkeeping, finance community who have supported us from day one.

[00:43:24] We have an amazing exhibitor community who are going to support us.

[00:43:28] Some of the guys have supported us from day one as well.

[00:43:31] Like we really have, people are really buying into what we're doing.

[00:43:35] And ultimately what we're doing is helping the profession move from a very compliant way of working

[00:43:41] into a more collaborative way of working.

[00:43:43] And we're just trying to play a supporting role in that evolution that's happening

[00:43:46] and trying to become a meeting platform and a meeting place for amazing companies

[00:43:50] and amazing accountants and bookkeeping firms to get together and to do business with one another

[00:43:55] and drive the profession forward.

[00:43:56] And in terms of kind of growth, yeah, super proud of where we've come in the last few years,

[00:44:01] especially with COVID right at the start, as John mentioned.

[00:44:03] And, you know, and I feel like we're just getting started to some extent,

[00:44:06] but we feel like we're only scratching the surface with the opportunity

[00:44:09] and with the mission that we've got, which is to help drive the profession forward.

[00:44:13] So we're just getting started.

[00:44:15] And I think because you've had so many challenges since you started,

[00:44:20] you had COVID to begin with, you've had your own personal growth challenges

[00:44:24] in and amongst it that we all have, but you really have.

[00:44:27] Like, if you're here, am I allowed to say?

[00:44:31] Straight out of the hospital.

[00:44:31] Yeah, straight out of the hospital.

[00:44:32] Am I allowed to say?

[00:44:33] Straight out of the hospital.

[00:44:34] Straight out of the hospital.

[00:44:35] Joining us here.

[00:44:37] And I just think that it's such an honour,

[00:44:40] but, like, you just continue to be an example of someone that goes,

[00:44:44] oh, OK, yeah, the bar is just here, but we're going to set it up here.

[00:44:48] And maybe we don't make it all the way up here.

[00:44:50] But, oh, my God, we're going to try?

[00:44:52] And so maybe we make it just shy of that.

[00:44:55] Do you learn with your team to celebrate that success as well,

[00:44:59] like, every year?

[00:45:00] Do you take that and do you soak it up enough, Dan?

[00:45:03] We should probably do more of it.

[00:45:04] We should probably celebrate more where we've come from.

[00:45:07] We're always trying to look for the next thing, and I'm always someone

[00:45:10] in all my previous jobs.

[00:45:11] How do I do things that have never been done before?

[00:45:13] How do we continue to raise the bar and blah, blah, all that sort of stuff?

[00:45:16] But maybe we should celebrate it a bit more as a team.

[00:45:20] In terms of, like, you know, coming back from COVID

[00:45:23] and coming back from the thing that I've just had done,

[00:45:26] you know, I always try and look at the glass half full rather than half empty

[00:45:29] and look at the positives in life.

[00:45:31] You know, I generally feel really thankful that I've had this operation now

[00:45:36] and not when I'm, you know, later on down the line.

[00:45:40] So everything happens for a reason.

[00:45:42] And, yeah, we'll carry on pushing the show forward,

[00:45:47] keep pushing the boundaries.

[00:45:48] We're already working on 2026.

[00:45:51] So watch this space.

[00:45:54] You are one of our greatest influences in the space, digital space.

[00:45:59] You definitely are, Dan, from the moment that you and I have met.

[00:46:03] I still feel that we need to go to one of those event awards things again

[00:46:08] and me bid bar too much on the silent auction

[00:46:13] and maybe throw some tables over, you know?

[00:46:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:46:17] Yeah, the events awards.

[00:46:18] So we're going to do that at some point.

[00:46:20] But either which way, I'm really grateful, thankful everyone is here

[00:46:24] because they've spoken so much about your event

[00:46:26] and we're really looking forward to seeing the 2026 version.

[00:46:31] So, yeah, thanks, Dan.

[00:46:33] Love you.

[00:46:40] So we're lucky enough to have Johan Ghori from Engage.app on the...

[00:46:45] Aftermath is the wrong word for this,

[00:46:47] but basically post winning the release of the year award

[00:46:51] at the Digital Disruptor Awards.

[00:46:53] And, yeah, I guess the first question I've got for you, mate,

[00:46:56] is what does it feel like winning the award?

[00:47:00] So we weren't able to attend the awards

[00:47:03] because we were briefing our team,

[00:47:06] getting ready for our first exhibition.

[00:47:09] But we were sat in Brewdog briefing our team over burgers and a pint.

[00:47:14] And we had the laptop open to one side

[00:47:17] and we were watching the live stream in there.

[00:47:20] And, yeah, once the...

[00:47:23] When we were announced as the winner,

[00:47:25] there was a cheer and a lot of people looking over at us.

[00:47:30] But, you know, it's great to win the award.

[00:47:33] I think as I referenced in the debrief last...

[00:47:37] In the live debrief we did,

[00:47:40] winning the award's great and that's fantastic to have a trophy

[00:47:43] and our first ever trophy sat on our, you know, trophy cabinet.

[00:47:47] Not that we've got one yet, but apparently...

[00:47:50] You've got a reason to build it now.

[00:47:50] And he said something about Barrington's trophy cabinet.

[00:47:53] Apparently they're not using it.

[00:47:55] Obviously not Spurs.

[00:47:56] Yeah.

[00:47:58] So, yeah, so it's fantastic to win.

[00:48:01] However, the fact that we were nominated

[00:48:06] for a number of categories by our users

[00:48:09] is that's the real acknowledgement here

[00:48:13] that our community's taking the time out of their day

[00:48:16] to say these guys deserve nominating.

[00:48:21] Because, yeah, they've got...

[00:48:22] They're all busy people.

[00:48:24] They've got better things to do

[00:48:25] than fill out forms on our behalf.

[00:48:28] So, yeah, that's the real exciting part, shall we say,

[00:48:34] that our users have gone,

[00:48:36] I'm going to spend some time

[00:48:38] and almost thank them for what they're doing

[00:48:40] by putting them forward for this.

[00:48:42] Yeah, and I guess, you know, first award,

[00:48:44] probably first of many, to be fair,

[00:48:46] and I know you're still like new as a product.

[00:48:50] Yeah, exactly.

[00:48:50] But I think that, yeah, not only is it nomination,

[00:48:53] but it's recognition for the effort and the work you put in.

[00:48:57] And for anyone that's listening,

[00:49:00] the main reason that Engager.app got this was,

[00:49:04] although it's called release of the year,

[00:49:06] it was not one specific release,

[00:49:08] but the way the team consistently make releases

[00:49:13] and also the education that goes around that.

[00:49:15] And I know that's something that,

[00:49:17] as a judging group that I witnessed as they were debating,

[00:49:21] they said felt very unique in the marketplace.

[00:49:24] And is that something that I guess you've really focused on as a team?

[00:49:30] It's hard to say whether we focused on it

[00:49:33] or if it's structured and planned.

[00:49:35] It's all, as far as I'm concerned,

[00:49:38] it comes as common sense.

[00:49:40] As a user of softwares myself,

[00:49:42] this is what I would want to feel informed by.

[00:49:45] So our users give us constant feedback,

[00:49:49] whether that's through our Facebook group,

[00:49:52] emails, raising tickets, et cetera.

[00:49:56] Like we released a new import tool last week

[00:49:58] and we've been getting the same question

[00:50:01] three or four times a day ever since.

[00:50:03] So there's a new UI release going out tomorrow night

[00:50:07] to counter that.

[00:50:08] So they're constantly feeding back to us

[00:50:10] in one way or another.

[00:50:12] And we're just very proactive and we listen

[00:50:15] and we action it straight away as best we can.

[00:50:17] And then I then explain that.

[00:50:22] In my, whether I do a video or I do a video

[00:50:25] and our weekly live sessions that we already do,

[00:50:29] ultimately it's content.

[00:50:30] Like we've committed to do a weekly live session

[00:50:33] to our users where they can ask us questions.

[00:50:36] How do we do this?

[00:50:37] How do we do that?

[00:50:38] Stuck on this, stuck on that.

[00:50:40] And that's for an hour.

[00:50:42] Well, it makes sense that I cover all the latest updates

[00:50:45] and show them how that works.

[00:50:46] And then we can snip that out

[00:50:48] and put it out as videos for help

[00:50:50] and help guides and stuff like that.

[00:50:52] So it's evergreen content.

[00:50:54] It's great.

[00:50:55] So it's an efficient way of doing it, I suppose,

[00:50:58] rather than filming a video,

[00:50:59] doing screenshots, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:51:01] Like there's lots we could be doing,

[00:51:03] but if we do it this way, it's more efficient.

[00:51:05] And I'm a huge fan of efficiency

[00:51:07] and effective ways of working.

[00:51:08] I think that's really beautiful, right?

[00:51:11] Something that you, I guess, have created

[00:51:14] has been born out of actually just trying to be more effective

[00:51:17] and make the biggest use of your time.

[00:51:20] So it's just kind of organically fell out

[00:51:23] into something that's, I guess,

[00:51:24] been beautifully recognized by your users.

[00:51:27] And it ultimately ended in you and the team

[00:51:30] getting an award for it.

[00:51:32] So I think that's beautiful.

[00:51:34] But something I guess I'd like to ask you is that

[00:51:38] who do you feel that in this space,

[00:51:41] maybe if it wasn't you, if you didn't exist,

[00:51:44] or maybe not just one person or one app,

[00:51:47] but who do you think possibly could have got

[00:51:49] release of the year instead?

[00:51:51] I think that we are at a very exciting time

[00:51:54] in the accounting and bookkeeping industry tech space

[00:51:57] at the moment,

[00:51:58] where we've got a few disruptors in softwares

[00:52:02] that are proving a few points in the form of

[00:52:05] you don't have to have millions of pounds

[00:52:09] of venture capital investment.

[00:52:12] You don't have to have a huge team.

[00:52:14] You just need to know what your product is,

[00:52:17] have a focus on your customer,

[00:52:18] and deliver what you promise.

[00:52:21] So people like Zama, Zenon, Connect,

[00:52:26] there's lots of startups out there

[00:52:28] that are breaking the mold as what we know of it.

[00:52:32] Like, even GoProposal,

[00:52:35] before they got acquired by Sage,

[00:52:37] they were basically bootstrapped.

[00:52:38] It wasn't capital investment and stuff.

[00:52:40] It was done organically.

[00:52:43] And there's a lot more of those businesses out there,

[00:52:45] whereas I think a lot of accountants

[00:52:46] and bookkeepers look at softwares and go,

[00:52:48] oh, well, they'll have millions of pounds of backing

[00:52:51] and stuff like that.

[00:52:52] Whereas you don't need that,

[00:52:54] and that doesn't always lead to the best decisions.

[00:52:58] And I'm still watching softwares,

[00:53:01] newer softwares making the same mistakes

[00:53:02] we've seen other softwares make,

[00:53:04] where they're sponsoring everything,

[00:53:06] and I'm going to pay for that drinks party,

[00:53:08] and pay for that drinks party,

[00:53:10] and actually where are you getting your return on investment here?

[00:53:13] Is that the best way to spend your users' money?

[00:53:16] Actually, it's Capital Venture, so you don't care.

[00:53:19] But so our only investment is our users' subscriptions.

[00:53:24] So we feel very responsible about investing that wisely.

[00:53:30] And, yeah, people like Zama and Zenon are out there doing exactly the same thing.

[00:53:35] Client Window doing some exciting things with WhatsApp

[00:53:38] and working on that technology.

[00:53:41] Yeah, I think the most exciting part, though,

[00:53:45] is that accountants and bookkeepers are seeing those small startup companies.

[00:53:48] They're seeing the difference between them and the big boys

[00:53:51] and going, they're actually doing something exciting.

[00:53:56] So, yeah, any of those kind of startups deserve recognition for what they're trying to do.

[00:54:01] Yeah, I think any of the...

[00:54:03] A lot of those bootstrap companies as well,

[00:54:05] you're trying to redefine, I guess,

[00:54:07] how a sector has, I guess, been serviced.

[00:54:11] We take GoProposal, right?

[00:54:12] They were educating about pricing and how to elevate your pricing.

[00:54:17] And so there's some of these that just they kind of think outside the box

[00:54:21] and they try and educate as well as provide tech to support that.

[00:54:25] And I think that's really interesting.

[00:54:27] We've got a few in the advisory space that I am keeping an eye on

[00:54:31] because I've always been wary of those in the advisory space,

[00:54:34] but their approaches are a bit different.

[00:54:36] I'm not talking about them now, but I'm keen to see if they do make it work.

[00:54:40] But at one point, yeah, and I was going to ask,

[00:54:43] is it just those that start of an X that are really good software?

[00:54:47] But obviously...

[00:54:48] There's a really blue one that I'm not a big fan of.

[00:54:52] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:54:53] I wondered if you'd go down that route.

[00:54:56] But yeah, that...

[00:54:57] There's lots of great bootstrapped softwares out there

[00:55:00] and there's more coming.

[00:55:02] So I'm part of a community that I know what some of those members that are coming,

[00:55:08] they're accountants and bookkeepers

[00:55:10] and they've come up with solutions

[00:55:11] and they're getting those solutions built.

[00:55:15] And I'm privileged to see that early stage of them doing things

[00:55:20] and them asking me my experiences and sharing experiences and stuff.

[00:55:25] And yeah, we don't just have to look at any more at the big boys

[00:55:30] and hope that they're going to give us something exciting

[00:55:32] because actually the space is getting very exciting

[00:55:35] with just the smaller boys playing.

[00:55:38] Yeah.

[00:55:39] It's a different beast, right?

[00:55:40] When you're smaller, you're more nimble,

[00:55:42] you can kind of do things a bit differently.

[00:55:43] And when you get bigger, it's a bit more complex.

[00:55:45] You've probably got some older software

[00:55:46] and most software does go through that journey.

[00:55:48] You start nimble and you become bigger

[00:55:49] and then it's hard to do things.

[00:55:51] And I think there's some that were bigger this year

[00:55:53] that had some great releases.

[00:55:55] Dex is one of those,

[00:55:56] had a bit of a mixed year, right?

[00:55:57] Managed to annoy its community,

[00:55:59] but then released some great stuff at the same time.

[00:56:01] And I think it's fine that balance.

[00:56:03] So what do you think would be,

[00:56:05] who do you think is to look out for

[00:56:07] for maybe release of next year?

[00:56:09] I know we had those that were coming up

[00:56:12] that we thought, oh, interesting tech.

[00:56:14] But who do you think,

[00:56:15] and it's really hard to predict,

[00:56:16] but who do you think might do a really good release

[00:56:17] in 24, 25?

[00:56:20] I think a lot of it's down to actually cutting through the hype

[00:56:23] and working out actually what value is this bringing

[00:56:26] into that everyone's hyped about AI.

[00:56:28] I've yet to see any AI.

[00:56:31] Actually, I take that back.

[00:56:32] I have seen one bit of AI in practice management

[00:56:35] that makes me go, actually, that adds value.

[00:56:38] So that's-

[00:56:39] Was it in your system?

[00:56:40] No, no, Carbon.

[00:56:41] So Carbon has just released a new AI summary thing

[00:56:44] that summarizes your client's like recent history

[00:56:48] of communications and stuff.

[00:56:50] So if I'm the practice manager,

[00:56:52] I'm looking at a client,

[00:56:54] and I just want kind of an overview

[00:56:56] of what's been going on with this client recently.

[00:57:00] It does that,

[00:57:00] and I think that adds genuine value.

[00:57:03] I think rehashing what's already available

[00:57:05] in other systems,

[00:57:06] like summarizing emails,

[00:57:08] well, I can do that in Outlook.

[00:57:10] I can do that in Gmail.

[00:57:11] I can do that in Apple Mail.

[00:57:14] Like suggesting responses and changing my tone.

[00:57:16] Well, I can use Apple Intelligence,

[00:57:18] Gmail, Samsung AI, whatever for that.

[00:57:20] Why are we rehashing what's already available?

[00:57:23] We need to make sure whatever AI is delivering,

[00:57:27] it's actually delivering insight.

[00:57:28] And a lot of the finance management solutions,

[00:57:31] AIs are actually,

[00:57:33] all they're doing is spitting out a graph.

[00:57:35] Well, we technically have that already,

[00:57:38] whether it's SIF Analytics,

[00:57:40] Futurly, whatever that is,

[00:57:41] whatever it is,

[00:57:42] or whether it's a built-in report.

[00:57:45] Is it really AI?

[00:57:47] I don't know.

[00:57:47] So I think it's important

[00:57:48] that we keep cutting through the hype

[00:57:51] and see the actual benefits.

[00:57:54] I mean, I've not seen

[00:57:56] what anyone's got on their roadmaps.

[00:57:58] Obviously, I know what Engage has got

[00:57:59] on their roadmaps,

[00:58:00] and I'd like to...

[00:58:01] You'd hope they would.

[00:58:02] Yeah.

[00:58:03] I mean, I'd like to think

[00:58:05] we've got some really exciting things

[00:58:07] coming next year

[00:58:07] that would put us in contention

[00:58:10] for that award again.

[00:58:12] But, again,

[00:58:14] who knows what, you know,

[00:58:16] QuickBooks, Zero, Sage,

[00:58:18] all they have to do

[00:58:19] is deliver one incredible thing

[00:58:22] that no bootstrap company

[00:58:24] could ever consider

[00:58:26] trying to develop and deploy

[00:58:28] because they haven't got the resources,

[00:58:30] and they've run away with it.

[00:58:32] Like, I would argue

[00:58:33] Free Agent's recent release

[00:58:36] of bank authorizations in bulk.

[00:58:40] That is, in the FMS sector,

[00:58:42] that's got to be release of the year, right?

[00:58:45] Yeah, well...

[00:58:45] I can re-apprise all my clients

[00:58:46] in one click.

[00:58:47] Yeah, I know.

[00:58:48] It's one of those ones

[00:58:49] where it's, like,

[00:58:50] a lot of people think,

[00:58:50] oh, it's tiny,

[00:58:51] but actually the impact it has,

[00:58:52] it can be a very small change

[00:58:54] but have a huge impact.

[00:58:55] And it's an impact

[00:58:56] that I realize every time

[00:58:57] when I log into QuickBooks or Zero

[00:58:58] and have to go through each client

[00:59:00] to work out

[00:59:00] who needs their bank

[00:59:01] really authenticating.

[00:59:02] Yeah, exactly.

[00:59:04] One, I guess,

[00:59:05] that I'm interested in,

[00:59:06] and I guess you probably know

[00:59:07] a bit about,

[00:59:08] is what Intuit are trying to do

[00:59:10] with AI over in the US

[00:59:11] regarding compliance,

[00:59:12] especially on the personal tax side.

[00:59:13] And if they can make that work

[00:59:15] and it comes over to the UK,

[00:59:16] I think that would be hands down

[00:59:18] like a release of the year.

[00:59:21] I've been quite...

[00:59:22] Intuit and QuickBooks

[00:59:24] and myself

[00:59:24] have been quite distanced

[00:59:25] since before the summer.

[00:59:28] We've got our own plans

[00:59:30] for practice management.

[00:59:31] They've got their own product.

[00:59:33] We've kind of shook hands

[00:59:35] and said we need to

[00:59:37] become more independent

[00:59:38] of each other,

[00:59:39] me as a personal brand from them.

[00:59:41] Of course.

[00:59:42] So, look,

[00:59:44] I only know now

[00:59:45] what the layman knows

[00:59:47] in regards to that

[00:59:48] and any gossip

[00:59:49] I can get off Aaron Patrick.

[00:59:52] That's the limit of my knowledge.

[00:59:56] But what I do know

[00:59:57] is this time last year,

[00:59:59] Intuit promised us

[01:00:00] Intuit Assist

[01:00:02] by August 24.

[01:00:04] I've not seen it.

[01:00:06] No.

[01:00:06] Jack's promise

[01:00:07] was promised by zero

[01:00:08] earlier this year,

[01:00:09] by August this year.

[01:00:10] Sage made promises

[01:00:11] and have rolled out

[01:00:13] upgrades and stuff.

[01:00:15] There's a lot of

[01:00:16] theoretically exciting

[01:00:18] things coming,

[01:00:19] but until they actually

[01:00:20] start delivering it,

[01:00:22] then I'll get more excited.

[01:00:24] We're in that hype phase,

[01:00:25] as you said,

[01:00:25] and we've got to wait

[01:00:26] for the actual tech

[01:00:27] to build up with the hype

[01:00:28] or catch up with the hype.

[01:00:29] So, we'll see if it's next year,

[01:00:31] maybe beyond.

[01:00:32] But what I'd like to finish on

[01:00:34] is a question about

[01:00:35] the awards themselves.

[01:00:36] We've tried to create

[01:00:37] something unique,

[01:00:38] something that adds value.

[01:00:39] Do you feel that

[01:00:39] we have achieved that

[01:00:40] with creating

[01:00:41] Intuitous Disruptive Awards?

[01:00:43] So, something Aaron and I

[01:00:45] have said several times

[01:00:46] is that there should be

[01:00:48] an award in some...

[01:00:51] We've all got these...

[01:00:52] We've got the Yorkshire Awards.

[01:00:53] We've got

[01:00:55] Accounting Excellence Awards.

[01:00:56] We've got the Lucre Awards.

[01:00:57] We've got all these

[01:00:58] different awards.

[01:01:00] Some from Governing Bodies

[01:01:02] just focus on their members.

[01:01:04] Fine.

[01:01:05] I like the fact that

[01:01:06] the ICB look at softwares

[01:01:07] because that's what supports

[01:01:08] their members to grow

[01:01:09] their business.

[01:01:10] I think that's right.

[01:01:11] Accounting Excellence Awards

[01:01:13] has gone away

[01:01:13] from awarding softwares

[01:01:15] and I get it.

[01:01:17] There's a collision

[01:01:18] of ethics and morals.

[01:01:20] If those softwares

[01:01:21] are paying for tables

[01:01:22] and stuff,

[01:01:22] is there a corruption

[01:01:23] issue there?

[01:01:24] I get it.

[01:01:27] And then...

[01:01:29] But what we don't recognize

[01:01:30] at the moment

[01:01:30] in any of those awards

[01:01:31] really is softwares

[01:01:32] apart from the Lukas,

[01:01:35] which has only allowed

[01:01:36] ICB members to vote

[01:01:37] and rightly so.

[01:01:38] It's their awards.

[01:01:39] So there's no public

[01:01:40] recognition

[01:01:42] of any softwares.

[01:01:44] There's no public

[01:01:45] recognition of any

[01:01:46] social media,

[01:01:46] whether it's a YouTuber,

[01:01:48] a podcaster,

[01:01:49] etc.

[01:01:50] I think that

[01:01:51] they are the ones

[01:01:52] that are driving

[01:01:53] this industry forward

[01:01:54] with information

[01:01:55] and knowledge.

[01:01:56] Like,

[01:01:57] how Accounting Web's

[01:01:58] podcast hasn't been

[01:01:58] awarded for news

[01:01:59] is beyond me.

[01:02:01] But then actually

[01:02:02] you look at it

[01:02:02] and there's not an

[01:02:03] award to give them.

[01:02:04] So should there be?

[01:02:06] Possibly.

[01:02:08] So yeah,

[01:02:08] there's lots and lots

[01:02:10] of awards out there.

[01:02:12] I think what you guys

[01:02:13] have done is actually

[01:02:14] unique in the form

[01:02:15] that it allows

[01:02:17] a public forum

[01:02:18] to vote on

[01:02:19] softwares

[01:02:20] as well as

[01:02:21] individuals and

[01:02:22] companies.

[01:02:24] So yeah,

[01:02:25] we all know

[01:02:26] an award

[01:02:27] looks good

[01:02:28] on the shelf.

[01:02:29] It creates a lot

[01:02:30] of social media

[01:02:30] content for us.

[01:02:31] So thank you very

[01:02:32] much for that.

[01:02:32] We were getting a bit

[01:02:33] dry on the content.

[01:02:36] But yeah,

[01:02:37] so I think it's great

[01:02:39] what you've done

[01:02:39] and I hope

[01:02:41] it'll be back

[01:02:41] next year

[01:02:42] and hopefully

[01:02:43] you'll continue

[01:02:45] and build

[01:02:46] on the categories

[01:02:47] that are available

[01:02:48] from there.

[01:02:49] Yeah,

[01:02:50] thanks very much.

[01:02:50] And thanks again,

[01:02:51] Yaren,

[01:02:51] for coming on.

[01:02:52] It's always great

[01:02:52] speaking to you

[01:02:53] and congratulations

[01:02:53] again for winning

[01:02:54] release of the year

[01:02:55] with Engager.app.

[01:02:56] Thank you very much

[01:02:57] for having me

[01:02:58] and thank you

[01:02:58] for delivering

[01:02:59] the awards.

[01:03:01] Ryan dropped off.

[01:03:03] So seeing as he

[01:03:03] dropped off the last

[01:03:04] time and it's

[01:03:05] now our outro,

[01:03:08] do you think

[01:03:08] we should ask

[01:03:10] anything of

[01:03:11] anyone that's

[01:03:12] listened to?

[01:03:13] I think we should

[01:03:14] ask the audience

[01:03:15] like what,

[01:03:16] what,

[01:03:16] we should,

[01:03:17] we should ask

[01:03:17] them to challenge

[01:03:18] Lee to either

[01:03:19] change Ryan's

[01:03:21] appearance or his

[01:03:21] voice in the edit.

[01:03:22] I think that's

[01:03:23] what we should

[01:03:24] get them to do.

[01:03:25] Like,

[01:03:26] what would they

[01:03:26] like to see Lee

[01:03:27] do to Ryan?

[01:03:28] Yeah,

[01:03:28] what would they

[01:03:29] like to see Lee

[01:03:31] do to Ryan?

[01:03:32] Would they like

[01:03:33] to change Ryan

[01:03:35] into some sort

[01:03:35] of Gandalf

[01:03:36] looking creature?

[01:03:41] Or do we want

[01:03:42] to see,

[01:03:43] oh,

[01:03:43] the ginger walrus?

[01:03:44] That's a big one.

[01:03:45] The ginger walrus.

[01:03:47] Could we make

[01:03:47] Ryan look more

[01:03:48] like a ginger

[01:03:50] walrus?

[01:03:51] But anyway,

[01:03:52] that's going to be

[01:03:53] our secret challenge

[01:03:54] for anyone that's

[01:03:55] listening to the

[01:03:56] end of this episode.

[01:03:58] Just feel free to

[01:03:59] give us,

[01:03:59] John and I,

[01:04:00] some suggestions

[01:04:01] so that we can

[01:04:02] make it happen

[01:04:03] on the next pod.

[01:04:04] Yeah,

[01:04:04] and we'll share

[01:04:05] them on the secret

[01:04:05] chat,

[01:04:06] which doesn't

[01:04:06] include Ryan,

[01:04:07] right?

[01:04:07] Just to really

[01:04:08] make him jealous.

[01:04:09] There's lots of

[01:04:10] secret chats

[01:04:11] that don't include

[01:04:11] Ryan.

[01:04:12] Well,

[01:04:12] there you go.

[01:04:13] Thank you for

[01:04:13] joining us as

[01:04:14] always.

[01:04:15] And of course,

[01:04:16] feedback,

[01:04:16] commentary,

[01:04:17] anything else

[01:04:17] you want.

[01:04:18] But bear in mind,

[01:04:19] of course,

[01:04:19] that what we want

[01:04:19] to know is

[01:04:20] what should we do

[01:04:21] to Ryan next?

[01:04:22] Thank you.