Welcome to the future, tech enthusiasts! Start 2025 on the right foot with our mystic meg themed episode, as John and Ryan reveal their predictions for 2025.
Wondering if Access will keep us guessing with their acquisitions, or if Sage open their war chest again?
Curious about the AI renaissance, open banking's comeback, and the dawn of Cloud 3.0?
Plus, who else thinks a new finance ledger player (Hammer with a Z, anyone?) will drop this year? And the boldest call of all: could Xero go private?!
Tune in for laughs, crazy forecasts, and the inevitable man flu outbreak. Don't miss the first Digi-Tools in Accrual World podcast of 2025!
00:00 Coming Up
01:19 Intro
2025 Predictions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
03:33 Acquisition Sprees
05:12 New OCR hitting its stride
08:15 Open Banking v2
10:51 AI Agents
15:19 Cloud 3.0
17:56 Digital Transformation Agencies
20:03 Wildcard predictions
24:12 Join us in 2025!
[00:00:00] What tech is coming in 2025 over the few years we're doing this? We've only ever made three predictions. We've got all right.
[00:00:06] Even if it's tenuous, we'll take it.
[00:00:07] Let's crack into our predictions.
[00:00:09] I'm going to predict that access are going to continue with their really random acquisition strategy.
[00:00:13] I mean, that's probably the easiest prediction to make is that access will carry on in their trends. Is that really a prediction? Let's copy it, surely.
[00:00:21] I'm thinking we might see a little bit of a renaissance of open banking technology.
[00:00:25] From an AI perspective, the big thing that people have been talking about but we haven't really seen yet is...
[00:00:32] Do you think this is something that firms themselves are going to build or are we going to be buying these from vendors?
[00:00:37] I probably should have caveated. I think people will try and build it. I just don't think it's going to be as successful as the central ones.
[00:00:42] We're about to see cloud 3.0 in terms of a revolution for firms.
[00:00:48] We're going to see growth in digital transformation businesses, consultancies and departments inside firms.
[00:00:56] I'm going to predict that Xero are going to come off market.
[00:00:58] I don't know if it will be someone in the sector that will come in and buy them or maybe one of the big PEs will go a little bit crazy.
[00:01:05] But I'm going to put it out there and say that that might happen in 2025.
[00:01:08] I mean, that's quite an out there prediction. I'll be honest, I can't see it happening.
[00:01:12] But does making a prediction like this have an impact on share price?
[00:01:18] Happy New Year from the crew at the Digitals and the Cruel World podcast.
[00:01:22] It is 2025. This is coming out on New Year's Day.
[00:01:26] Hopefully you've had a cracking evening and all you've been thinking about is what tech is coming in 2025?
[00:01:31] Because that's what we're going to discuss today.
[00:01:33] I'm lucky enough to be joined by John Toon.
[00:01:36] But firstly, we have to say that we are missing Indie Tatler for our first 2025 podcast.
[00:01:42] John, what do you think she's up to?
[00:01:45] Unbelievable. I mean, she's probably going to be partying, right?
[00:01:48] That's inevitable, I think, with Indie.
[00:01:49] And I think this is a sign of things to come.
[00:01:52] We're like chopped liver to her now in 2025.
[00:01:54] Now that she's a CEO, she doesn't have time for us mere mortals and the minions.
[00:02:00] Yeah, exactly.
[00:02:01] Yeah. She's only interested in the yes men.
[00:02:04] And we're unfortunately neither of those.
[00:02:07] Well, you're as far from a yes man as you can get, aren't you, John?
[00:02:10] And I can hear your voice is slightly gone, but this isn't from alcohol.
[00:02:14] This is still man flu. Is that right?
[00:02:17] Yeah, this is the man flu that keeps on giving.
[00:02:20] Yeah, it's taking me down big time.
[00:02:24] So it's not ideal.
[00:02:25] And I'm a little bit worried.
[00:02:27] I feel like a sort of prepubescent boy.
[00:02:29] So if my voice goes a bit squeaky and a bit scary at some point,
[00:02:32] it's not because my balls have dropped.
[00:02:33] It's actually just because there's terrible man flu.
[00:02:37] Regressing, regressing backwards in age in 2025, John.
[00:02:40] So it's good to hear.
[00:02:41] I need it.
[00:02:43] Yeah, well, I need to.
[00:02:45] If hair comes with that, I'm taking it.
[00:02:47] And as I said, we're going to dive into our predictions
[00:02:50] for what we think is going to come out as news in 2025.
[00:02:54] We did in our last episode run through, you know,
[00:02:57] what went through 2024, the big stories, what happened,
[00:03:00] what the big trends were.
[00:03:01] We're going to try and do some predictions,
[00:03:02] see if John and I have got to get anything right.
[00:03:05] I think that'd be nice, wouldn't it?
[00:03:06] Get anything right throughout 2025.
[00:03:09] Even if it's tenuous, we'll take it, won't we?
[00:03:11] Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:11] I mean, we'll link it in some way.
[00:03:13] I'm sure we'll just try and be as bland
[00:03:15] and all encompassing as possible.
[00:03:17] So on that note, let's crack into our predictions, John.
[00:03:21] Do you want to start with your biggest one for the year?
[00:03:29] Oh, my biggest one of the year.
[00:03:31] I'm going to build up.
[00:03:31] I'm going to go from small to big, I think.
[00:03:35] I'm going to predict that Access are going to continue
[00:03:39] with their really random acquisition strategy.
[00:03:41] In fact, I'm going to predict that connected to that,
[00:03:45] Sage might actually make an acquisition
[00:03:46] that makes sense for once as well.
[00:03:48] Because, you know, apart from their desperation purchases
[00:03:51] over the last few years, they haven't really done anything
[00:03:53] exciting or interesting last, definitely in 2024, it feels like.
[00:03:57] So 2025, I'm hoping to see something from Sage.
[00:04:00] And yeah, Access will keep on buying random apps
[00:04:03] in the Xero ecosystem, which make no sense.
[00:04:05] And then occasionally buy something that makes a lot of sense
[00:04:08] to the scale and size of businesses that they're targeting.
[00:04:11] I mean, that's probably the easiest prediction to make,
[00:04:14] is that the Access will carry on in their trends.
[00:04:16] Is that really a prediction?
[00:04:17] Let's copy out, surely.
[00:04:19] It is copy out.
[00:04:20] I'll tell you what, let's go wild.
[00:04:22] Let's say they're going to buy Buddy payroll, HR.
[00:04:26] There you go.
[00:04:26] I'll pull that out there.
[00:04:28] Because they need a decent payroll and HR system
[00:04:29] because they haven't got one.
[00:04:30] Because we used one of theirs and it's awful.
[00:04:33] Which is the one you used?
[00:04:34] Because didn't they buy, I could be wrong,
[00:04:35] but didn't they buy PayCircle?
[00:04:37] They do buy PayCircle.
[00:04:39] And PayCircle is not too bad as a payroll system,
[00:04:41] but I think it could generally be improved.
[00:04:43] But we do use PeopleHR and that's a terrible, terrible system.
[00:04:47] That is very traditional.
[00:04:49] And they do need to integrate something in.
[00:04:51] I don't know if they would integrate anything
[00:04:54] into PayCircle maybe.
[00:04:57] But yeah, good prediction, John.
[00:04:59] We'll see what comes from that.
[00:05:00] Well, I'm going a bit broader.
[00:05:03] That was very specific, very exact on that.
[00:05:08] There's a lot that can go wrong with that one.
[00:05:12] I'm going a bit broader.
[00:05:13] And I think that we've had a lot of talk over 2024.
[00:05:16] That was the year of the entrance to that new wave of OCR tech
[00:05:23] for expense management.
[00:05:25] And I think 2025 is going to be really when it starts making a mark
[00:05:28] where they've been dabbling.
[00:05:30] There's excitement.
[00:05:31] But there's not been much to show from it.
[00:05:34] I guess, you know, like the early wave of AI.
[00:05:37] And I think that we're going to now see in 2025
[00:05:41] the likes of Genesis, the likes of Breedcase
[00:05:43] and others that come into this space
[00:05:46] really show how much of a difference,
[00:05:49] how more accurate, how more predictive it can be
[00:05:51] than the more traditional OCR systems.
[00:05:54] And I think that we're going to start to see
[00:05:57] people move across to those platforms.
[00:05:59] I mean, do you think that's possible, John?
[00:06:01] I do think it's absolutely possible.
[00:06:03] And I think you make a couple of interesting comments there
[00:06:07] in terms of the increased accuracy
[00:06:08] and whether or not you'll get some genuine increases in speed and stuff.
[00:06:13] And I guess in the context of the DEX news
[00:06:16] that we announced fairly recently as well
[00:06:17] in terms of Iris buying them,
[00:06:19] there's going to be a lot of people slightly nervous about that
[00:06:21] looking around and maybe thinking about moving.
[00:06:23] You know, that in itself is not a small undertaking,
[00:06:26] particularly if you've got a lot of clients on that product
[00:06:28] and you're shifting them from one thing to another.
[00:06:30] You know, it's a big time cost.
[00:06:32] It's a big investment in retraining,
[00:06:35] re-educating teams, clients, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:06:39] But I think, yeah, I think we'll see that.
[00:06:40] I think maybe just to add on to that as well
[00:06:42] is I wonder if what we'll start to see
[00:06:44] maybe towards the middle or latter end of 2025
[00:06:46] is some true sort of AI businesses
[00:06:52] who aren't really looking to solve necessarily
[00:06:54] just the bookkeeping thing,
[00:06:56] but actually trying to offer more of the sort of broader set
[00:06:58] of accounting and reporting as well.
[00:07:01] I've already been approached,
[00:07:02] I was already approached in the back end of 2024
[00:07:05] by a couple of entities who are looking for training data
[00:07:08] for models that they're looking to release in next year.
[00:07:12] And, you know, they are not just wanting trial balance
[00:07:16] and bills and that kind of information.
[00:07:19] They're looking for management reports.
[00:07:20] They're looking for other peripheral information
[00:07:22] that goes around the outside of what you would do.
[00:07:24] So I wonder if someone's going to try
[00:07:26] and take a bigger leap than just bookkeeping,
[00:07:28] which would be fascinating to see, I guess.
[00:07:31] Yeah, I mean, I guess you've had some,
[00:07:34] we could say AI about bank rec, haven't we, for a while.
[00:07:37] But beyond that, it's been, well, few and far between
[00:07:41] and nothing that's really moved the needle.
[00:07:44] So yeah, it'd be exciting to see.
[00:07:45] I do think that, you know,
[00:07:46] we've had a lot of hype on AI for a while.
[00:07:49] And especially in the accounting industry,
[00:07:51] there's been that thing of, oh God,
[00:07:52] all our jobs are going to go.
[00:07:53] But we might now start to see things happening in 2025
[00:07:59] around the AI side,
[00:08:01] where actually we see a notable improvement
[00:08:03] in the way we can operate.
[00:08:05] I don't think there's any threat to our jobs,
[00:08:08] the way we work, just better tools that we can utilise.
[00:08:12] And yeah, I'm excited to see that play out.
[00:08:15] So what would your second prediction be, John?
[00:08:17] Are you going to go a bit broader this time?
[00:08:20] I'm going to say,
[00:08:21] I'm thinking we might see a little bit of a renaissance
[00:08:24] of open banking technology.
[00:08:26] And I think this might be connected
[00:08:28] and the timing might be off here,
[00:08:29] but it might be connected to the e-unvoicing stuff.
[00:08:31] We know that the government announced in late 2024
[00:08:33] that they're going to start consulting on e-unvoicing.
[00:08:35] We know that it's kind of spreading out across the world
[00:08:38] in Europe and many other places as well.
[00:08:41] But when we last properly talked about open banking,
[00:08:45] which is a while ago,
[00:08:46] we talked about the fact that VRP technology,
[00:08:49] which is kind of like direct debit version 2.0,
[00:08:51] was expected to come in and it's not really got there.
[00:08:54] But hopefully the legislation and the requirements
[00:08:57] will start to come through in this year, in 2025.
[00:09:00] And I think also we're likely to see possibly some legislation,
[00:09:05] again, probably towards the latter end of the year,
[00:09:07] which will encourage other financial institutions
[00:09:09] to get on board with open banking.
[00:09:10] So it'll really get the breadth of penetration
[00:09:12] that it was supposed to get.
[00:09:14] I'm not just looking at some current accounts,
[00:09:16] some business accounts,
[00:09:17] but also getting into savings accounts,
[00:09:19] getting into maybe pensions, investments,
[00:09:20] and other things as well.
[00:09:21] And that would have a potentially massive impact
[00:09:24] for not just day-to-day bookkeeping,
[00:09:27] but things like doing year-end accounts,
[00:09:29] maybe even feeding that data direct to HMRC,
[00:09:31] which is already happening in some respects anyway.
[00:09:33] But imagine having that appearing in your tax data.
[00:09:37] We already know MTD for income taxes
[00:09:39] could be coming, what, in 15 months' time,
[00:09:42] more or less, in terms of timescales
[00:09:44] of the official launch now.
[00:09:46] So I think that would be really fascinating
[00:09:49] to see it all come together like that.
[00:09:51] Yeah, I mean, we've managed to take
[00:09:52] pretty much the entire year
[00:09:54] of you not banging on about open banking.
[00:09:56] You're kicking off the first 2025 episode
[00:09:59] banging on about open banking.
[00:10:01] Okay, well, we're not escaping that,
[00:10:03] I guess, on this podcast.
[00:10:04] But no, I mean, I think you're right.
[00:10:06] I think that it will come back.
[00:10:07] I think the bit that I know they're talking about
[00:10:10] more in Australia is about open data,
[00:10:13] not necessarily open banking,
[00:10:15] but as you say, spreading out into the many other areas.
[00:10:17] And I think that's something
[00:10:18] that we need to be talking a lot more about in the UK.
[00:10:21] And maybe the new government will be doing that.
[00:10:23] I guess not so new anymore,
[00:10:25] but they're already talking about the invoicing side,
[00:10:28] as you say.
[00:10:29] Be exciting if they start talking about open data
[00:10:32] and you controlling that in a more secure format
[00:10:37] that you can then open out to the software
[00:10:39] that you want to engage with.
[00:10:41] That would be something that I would love to see in 2025.
[00:10:45] Yeah, possibilities are endless for that, aren't they?
[00:10:48] Yes, indeed.
[00:10:49] Well, I guess slightly linked to this,
[00:10:51] I think that from an AI perspective,
[00:10:54] the big thing that people have been talking about,
[00:10:58] but we haven't really seen yet,
[00:11:00] is AI agents.
[00:11:02] And that makes a huge difference.
[00:11:03] So explain, I guess, what an AI agent is.
[00:11:06] It's something that can work across multiple platforms.
[00:11:08] You are telling it what you want it to do,
[00:11:11] and it's going out and sourcing the information.
[00:11:13] It's interacting with the tools you need it to interact with.
[00:11:16] And then coming back with the answers.
[00:11:18] And so at the moment,
[00:11:20] 2024 was those AI tools that were very much insular.
[00:11:23] They were kind of sat in the package that you worked in.
[00:11:26] AI agents expand out.
[00:11:28] And when they properly come in,
[00:11:29] they will, once again,
[00:11:32] revolutionize the way that we'd interact with AI.
[00:11:34] So I think we'll start to see this in 2025.
[00:11:37] I would like to say it'd be in the first half.
[00:11:39] My prediction is probably going to be in the second half, 2025,
[00:11:42] before we just properly get some traction.
[00:11:45] We may see a few where they're starting to dabble with them in the early
[00:11:48] parts of the year.
[00:11:49] But I think that that will,
[00:11:51] I guess,
[00:11:52] start to properly capitalize on the buzz that we've had around AI since it
[00:11:58] came out.
[00:11:59] When was that?
[00:12:00] 2023?
[00:12:02] Yeah.
[00:12:03] Yeah.
[00:12:04] Early 2023.
[00:12:05] Like 2022.
[00:12:06] It's been a whole year,
[00:12:07] a whole year of it.
[00:12:08] And I'm already saying nothing's really happened.
[00:12:13] So I've got an interest,
[00:12:15] a question here on that then is like,
[00:12:17] you know,
[00:12:17] when you're talking about AI agents,
[00:12:18] do you think this is something that firms themselves are going to build?
[00:12:21] Or are we going to be buying these from vendors?
[00:12:23] And are they going to be job specific in terms of,
[00:12:26] you know,
[00:12:26] aligned with a particular service that we want to offer?
[00:12:29] Or do you think it'll be more general in terms of like a kind of a,
[00:12:33] like an information bar,
[00:12:34] if you like,
[00:12:35] in terms of something you can ask questions of?
[00:12:38] So I don't think firms are going to build them.
[00:12:40] I think purely because I think centralized AI agents that are flexible will be
[00:12:46] much stronger than anything that we could build.
[00:12:49] We,
[00:12:49] you know,
[00:12:49] we don't have the skillset or the money,
[00:12:51] to be honest,
[00:12:51] as firms to do this.
[00:12:53] I think they're going to be those that are developed centrally,
[00:12:57] centrally,
[00:12:57] and then you can refine them.
[00:12:59] So similar to,
[00:13:00] I guess,
[00:13:00] the way the AI OCR tools have been talking and that you,
[00:13:05] they create a general code,
[00:13:06] then you put it into your business and it adapts to the way your business
[00:13:10] operates.
[00:13:10] I think you'll have these centralized AI agents that you'll then bring into an
[00:13:14] industry.
[00:13:14] It will learn or train itself on how to really interact or source information
[00:13:19] for that industry.
[00:13:20] And then from there,
[00:13:21] it will kind of roll out across firms.
[00:13:23] That's my prediction.
[00:13:24] But I think realistically,
[00:13:27] I don't think we're going to see the tailored side in 2025.
[00:13:30] I think that'll come later.
[00:13:31] I think we'll get the generic ones that maybe on a personal level,
[00:13:34] we'll interact with more before we get to the business side.
[00:13:38] Yeah.
[00:13:39] Interesting.
[00:13:39] Yeah.
[00:13:39] I mean,
[00:13:40] I think,
[00:13:40] I think there are some working examples,
[00:13:43] you know,
[00:13:43] very much on the periphery that we've seen in earlier times for,
[00:13:48] for AI agents.
[00:13:49] They've been specifically,
[00:13:51] typically,
[00:13:52] sorry,
[00:13:53] not specifically,
[00:13:53] they've typically been around knowledge-based stuff,
[00:13:56] you know,
[00:13:57] so it's been like,
[00:13:57] I don't know,
[00:13:58] VAT or,
[00:13:59] or taxation or accounting standards or something like that.
[00:14:03] Um,
[00:14:04] we know that PwC have been trialing,
[00:14:07] trialing with tax agents,
[00:14:08] tax,
[00:14:09] you know,
[00:14:09] to,
[00:14:09] to,
[00:14:09] to interact with,
[00:14:10] with clients.
[00:14:11] Um,
[00:14:13] and,
[00:14:13] and,
[00:14:13] you know,
[00:14:14] difficult to say from the outside looking in how successful that has
[00:14:16] been,
[00:14:16] but,
[00:14:17] you know,
[00:14:17] I think a fascinating proof of concept,
[00:14:19] if nothing else,
[00:14:19] and,
[00:14:20] um,
[00:14:21] a really,
[00:14:21] really great opportunity.
[00:14:23] So,
[00:14:23] um,
[00:14:23] yeah,
[00:14:24] I,
[00:14:24] I completely agree with you.
[00:14:25] I think there's more to come from this.
[00:14:26] Um,
[00:14:26] I do think that some firms will try and build this.
[00:14:28] Um,
[00:14:29] I think,
[00:14:29] I think some medium sized,
[00:14:30] larger firms will definitely try and build some of these things
[00:14:32] themselves,
[00:14:33] how successful it'd be,
[00:14:34] or whether they'll have to double up with a vendor to kind of,
[00:14:37] you know,
[00:14:37] I guess white label a model,
[00:14:39] maybe that might be the way that they go with that.
[00:14:40] But,
[00:14:41] um,
[00:14:41] yeah,
[00:14:42] definitely some exciting stuff to come.
[00:14:44] Yeah,
[00:14:44] I agree.
[00:14:45] I,
[00:14:45] I,
[00:14:45] I probably should have caveated.
[00:14:47] I think people will try and build it.
[00:14:48] I just don't think it's going to be as successful as the central ones.
[00:14:51] personally,
[00:14:52] you know,
[00:14:52] I think there's,
[00:14:53] uh,
[00:14:56] and some may solve some very niche requirements for firms,
[00:15:00] but I,
[00:15:01] in general think that the ones that will be market defining will be those
[00:15:05] that are developed centrally.
[00:15:07] Uh,
[00:15:07] and will be,
[00:15:07] it may come from a,
[00:15:09] an existing provider,
[00:15:10] you know,
[00:15:10] a huge,
[00:15:11] um,
[00:15:11] you know,
[00:15:12] like Microsoft,
[00:15:13] Google,
[00:15:13] or it may come from a new startup that just hits gold and it,
[00:15:17] it spreads that well.
[00:15:18] Um,
[00:15:19] so John,
[00:15:20] what's your third prediction,
[00:15:22] mate?
[00:15:24] Well,
[00:15:24] I'm going to be a little bit broad with this.
[00:15:26] But then I will,
[00:15:27] I will get a bit more specific.
[00:15:28] So I think,
[00:15:29] I think we're about to see kind of like cloud 3.0,
[00:15:34] if you like,
[00:15:34] in terms of a revolution for firms,
[00:15:37] um,
[00:15:37] to go,
[00:15:38] to go looking at the market.
[00:15:39] And what I mean by this is that,
[00:15:41] um,
[00:15:41] you know,
[00:15:42] we know that the big players in our space,
[00:15:44] Iris,
[00:15:45] CCH,
[00:15:46] Digita,
[00:15:46] to example,
[00:15:47] to,
[00:15:47] to,
[00:15:47] to a degree.
[00:15:48] And,
[00:15:48] and then you're kind of the,
[00:15:50] the other competitors that are in this place as well,
[00:15:53] in terms of like tax count,
[00:15:54] bright,
[00:15:54] et cetera,
[00:15:55] et cetera.
[00:15:55] They're all coming to market with some really interesting things that are going to be cloud-based,
[00:16:00] replacing their,
[00:16:01] um,
[00:16:01] historic tools.
[00:16:02] And I think,
[00:16:04] again,
[00:16:04] what we're going to start to see where 2024,
[00:16:06] I think a lot of firms are sort of sat on the hands of trying to,
[00:16:10] um,
[00:16:10] you,
[00:16:11] um,
[00:16:12] look at what they've got from a technology point of view,
[00:16:14] maximize what they've got and not really invest too much more heavily in new,
[00:16:17] new tools and new products.
[00:16:18] I think with all of this AI stuff that's going on and,
[00:16:21] and,
[00:16:21] and we're probably going to see a ramp up of noise again,
[00:16:23] we're going to start to see people moving across from,
[00:16:26] um,
[00:16:27] you know,
[00:16:27] on-prem solutions to cloud much more broadly.
[00:16:31] Um,
[00:16:31] and you know,
[00:16:32] that's going to continue into 2026,
[00:16:34] I expect as well.
[00:16:35] Um,
[00:16:36] so,
[00:16:36] so I think,
[00:16:37] I think we're going to see much more of that.
[00:16:38] So I think,
[00:16:39] I think what we're going to see in particular is ramping up in towards the
[00:16:42] back end of the air again,
[00:16:43] of lots of firms really looking at their strategy of investment,
[00:16:46] where they're going to go,
[00:16:47] really putting pressure on vendors to sort of benchmark where those
[00:16:50] particular products are and then figuring out where they want to go
[00:16:53] next.
[00:16:53] Um,
[00:16:54] you know,
[00:16:54] that's in the context of well,
[00:16:55] of,
[00:16:56] of all of the,
[00:16:56] you know,
[00:16:57] other players that have come in to challenge these guys like,
[00:17:00] um,
[00:17:00] you know,
[00:17:01] silver thin,
[00:17:02] um,
[00:17:03] you know,
[00:17:03] like,
[00:17:04] like my work papers,
[00:17:05] which is now part of bright group and all these other things,
[00:17:07] they're going to have to go up,
[00:17:08] go up a level in terms of maturity level,
[00:17:10] maturity curve to,
[00:17:11] to stay,
[00:17:11] to stay relevant too.
[00:17:13] So I think we're going to see,
[00:17:14] you know,
[00:17:14] some,
[00:17:15] some really exciting changes here.
[00:17:18] I think we're going to see some missteps and some fails along the way.
[00:17:20] That's almost inevitable.
[00:17:22] Um,
[00:17:22] but I think from a firm point of view,
[00:17:23] I think we're going to really see a ramp up of,
[00:17:25] of interest in what are these products starting to do and where they're
[00:17:27] going to come from.
[00:17:28] And,
[00:17:28] um,
[00:17:29] you know,
[00:17:29] literally in the last few days,
[00:17:31] I've been talking to someone,
[00:17:33] uh,
[00:17:33] as sad as it is over the holiday period,
[00:17:35] but,
[00:17:35] you know,
[00:17:35] I've been talking to someone about,
[00:17:36] about practice management solutions and where,
[00:17:38] where we're thinking of going in terms of the direction of travel
[00:17:41] whilst we wait for products to come into the market.
[00:17:43] Um,
[00:17:44] you know,
[00:17:44] what's mature,
[00:17:45] what's not mature,
[00:17:46] what's missing,
[00:17:46] whether or not maybe some firms might club together to build something,
[00:17:50] even though,
[00:17:50] that would be really exciting.
[00:17:51] Um,
[00:17:53] there's no rest for you.
[00:17:53] Is there,
[00:17:54] John always working,
[00:17:55] mate,
[00:17:55] always working.
[00:17:56] Um,
[00:17:57] but I think that's a perfect tee up for my third prediction,
[00:17:59] which is,
[00:18:00] I think we're going to see,
[00:18:01] um,
[00:18:02] a,
[00:18:03] a growth in digital transformation,
[00:18:05] businesses,
[00:18:06] consultancies,
[00:18:06] um,
[00:18:07] or,
[00:18:07] or,
[00:18:08] and,
[00:18:09] um,
[00:18:10] department inside,
[00:18:11] uh,
[00:18:12] firms.
[00:18:12] I think that the market is now getting to that,
[00:18:15] uh,
[00:18:16] inflection point where businesses are really understanding that they need to do
[00:18:19] something to,
[00:18:20] to stay,
[00:18:20] um,
[00:18:21] well,
[00:18:22] relevant,
[00:18:22] uh,
[00:18:23] to also make sure that they're ready for AI and firms are also looking
[00:18:26] inwards.
[00:18:27] We had the years of looking outwards,
[00:18:28] solving things for our clients and now looking inward as you say and going,
[00:18:32] we need to do something with our own tech.
[00:18:33] And because of that,
[00:18:34] because of the thousands of options you've got out there across endless,
[00:18:38] um,
[00:18:39] uh,
[00:18:41] uh,
[00:18:41] sectors and industries,
[00:18:44] you've,
[00:18:45] you've got a need for it,
[00:18:46] uh,
[00:18:47] for specialisms,
[00:18:48] for experts.
[00:18:50] Um,
[00:18:50] and we've had a few come out in 2024 and in the latter half of it,
[00:18:55] I think we're going to see,
[00:18:56] uh,
[00:18:56] a rise in 2025 from what I've been speaking to,
[00:18:59] um,
[00:19:00] and a big growth area for this space.
[00:19:03] Firms are either going to capitalize on it or they're going to,
[00:19:06] I think partner and just make sure they're protected against their
[00:19:09] competitors out there.
[00:19:10] Um,
[00:19:10] and if you are not doing anything,
[00:19:12] then this is the time to start exploring it,
[00:19:14] thinking about it,
[00:19:15] talking to people and making sure that you've got a plan.
[00:19:17] Um,
[00:19:18] so yeah,
[00:19:18] watch this space.
[00:19:18] There's going to be a lot going on.
[00:19:20] Well,
[00:19:21] I think,
[00:19:21] I think that dovetails really neat,
[00:19:22] neatly with my,
[00:19:23] my thing as well,
[00:19:24] because I think if you're a firm that's either maybe looking to develop this
[00:19:27] skill set or,
[00:19:28] or going to partner with someone else is you're probably going to need that
[00:19:31] as well.
[00:19:31] When you start to make some of these changes towards the latter part of the
[00:19:34] year,
[00:19:34] or maybe early 2026,
[00:19:35] when you may be thinking of getting rid of some of those on-prem solutions that
[00:19:38] you desperately wanted to get rid of for the last 10 years and finally can now
[00:19:41] do that.
[00:19:42] So,
[00:19:42] um,
[00:19:43] yeah,
[00:19:43] it's,
[00:19:44] it's a skill set you just required as a great opportunity.
[00:19:46] I mean,
[00:19:46] you and I both do this for,
[00:19:48] for a day job,
[00:19:48] right.
[00:19:49] And we,
[00:19:49] we see,
[00:19:49] we see the opportunities that it presents.
[00:19:51] So yeah,
[00:19:52] long may that continue.
[00:19:54] Definitely.
[00:19:55] Definitely.
[00:19:55] What's his space.
[00:19:56] It's going to be big.
[00:19:57] Um,
[00:19:58] so yeah,
[00:19:59] I think in general that comes to the end of our main predictions,
[00:20:01] but,
[00:20:02] um,
[00:20:03] I think we should go wild with just one extra each,
[00:20:06] John,
[00:20:06] and just go completely out there,
[00:20:08] um,
[00:20:08] make a prediction that is not,
[00:20:10] uh,
[00:20:11] I guess is probably obvious as some of the ones we've done.
[00:20:15] Um,
[00:20:15] and rather than what I always do,
[00:20:17] which is throw it to you first,
[00:20:18] John,
[00:20:19] throw you under the,
[00:20:20] um,
[00:20:21] I'll,
[00:20:21] I'll take this.
[00:20:22] And just so you know,
[00:20:23] I'm waiting for this.
[00:20:24] I'm waiting for this.
[00:20:25] Well,
[00:20:26] we've not planned it.
[00:20:27] So,
[00:20:27] uh,
[00:20:29] literally just going off the cuff on all of this.
[00:20:31] Um,
[00:20:32] I think that we're going to start to see,
[00:20:34] and hopefully,
[00:20:35] uh,
[00:20:36] yeah,
[00:20:37] I think it will start to make some ways.
[00:20:39] I think there's going to be a new,
[00:20:40] um,
[00:20:41] a new player in the,
[00:20:43] uh,
[00:20:43] finance ledger,
[00:20:44] uh,
[00:20:45] uh,
[00:20:45] this year.
[00:20:45] I think we know it's been quiet.
[00:20:47] It's been quiet for a while.
[00:20:48] We've had some huge domination by some big players.
[00:20:51] Um,
[00:20:52] we had a few come in that have tried,
[00:20:53] tried to make some waves.
[00:20:54] We've been had some that have been,
[00:20:56] you know,
[00:20:56] it's free use our system,
[00:20:58] but,
[00:20:58] um,
[00:20:58] have not managed to make an impression,
[00:21:00] but with the Prince of AI,
[00:21:03] I think we're going to,
[00:21:04] we're going to see some big changes.
[00:21:06] I would be hopeful that it would be in 2025.
[00:21:09] If not,
[00:21:09] it's going to be 2026,
[00:21:11] but yeah,
[00:21:11] new finance system.
[00:21:13] I'm thinking,
[00:21:13] especially in the small space.
[00:21:15] What do you think it'll be called Ryan?
[00:21:18] Uh,
[00:21:18] hammer.
[00:21:19] I'll just make it that up.
[00:21:21] Like,
[00:21:22] like Thor.
[00:21:23] Like,
[00:21:23] but spelt with a,
[00:21:26] spelt with a Z.
[00:21:28] I don't know.
[00:21:30] It'd be like,
[00:21:31] it'd be like,
[00:21:31] no,
[00:21:32] what would it be like?
[00:21:33] No,
[00:21:33] no bookkeeping job is too big to crack or something like that.
[00:21:36] Oh yeah.
[00:21:37] There you go.
[00:21:37] We already got a tagline.
[00:21:39] Perfect.
[00:21:39] Um,
[00:21:40] so if,
[00:21:40] if you are a software developer and you haven't actually got a plan,
[00:21:44] now,
[00:21:45] you know,
[00:21:45] it's a new finance system called hammer.
[00:21:47] spelt with a Z.
[00:21:48] That's our intellectual property.
[00:21:50] Yeah.
[00:21:50] Yeah.
[00:21:51] We want something for that.
[00:21:53] So,
[00:21:53] all right.
[00:21:54] That's my,
[00:21:54] my out there prediction.
[00:21:56] John,
[00:21:56] have you got one,
[00:21:57] mate?
[00:21:57] Um,
[00:21:58] I,
[00:21:58] I do.
[00:21:59] I've been saying this for months,
[00:22:01] but I'm,
[00:22:01] I,
[00:22:02] and,
[00:22:02] and this,
[00:22:03] this is might sound a little bit crazy in the context of,
[00:22:05] you know,
[00:22:05] the zero share price at one point was,
[00:22:07] was stuck at about,
[00:22:09] um,
[00:22:09] a hundred dollars or $120 and it couldn't,
[00:22:11] couldn't ever get above,
[00:22:13] um,
[00:22:13] about $140.
[00:22:14] And I think last time I looked,
[00:22:15] it was around about 170,
[00:22:16] maybe $180,
[00:22:18] but I'm going to predict that zero going to come off market.
[00:22:20] I don't know if it would be someone,
[00:22:21] someone in the sector that will come in and buy them and take them off
[00:22:24] market,
[00:22:25] or maybe one of the big,
[00:22:27] um,
[00:22:27] PEs will go a little bit crazy and grab them off market.
[00:22:30] But I,
[00:22:31] uh,
[00:22:31] I'm going to put it out there and say that that might happen in 2025.
[00:22:35] Wow.
[00:22:36] Um,
[00:22:38] does,
[00:22:38] does making a prediction like this have an impact on share price?
[00:22:45] It's like the Elon Musk effect.
[00:22:48] Is that what you're saying?
[00:22:48] It's like,
[00:22:49] because obviously we've got such a,
[00:22:51] such an expansive listenership here that,
[00:22:53] um,
[00:22:54] they're all going to be going,
[00:22:55] Oh,
[00:22:55] I need to,
[00:22:56] I need to get some zero shares.
[00:22:58] That's my thought process.
[00:22:59] Are you suggesting that I should disclose that I've got shares in zero just
[00:23:02] in case I'm trying to pick up the market?
[00:23:05] If you,
[00:23:06] if you did John.
[00:23:07] Um,
[00:23:07] but yeah,
[00:23:08] I mean,
[00:23:08] that is quite,
[00:23:09] that's quite an out there prediction.
[00:23:10] Um,
[00:23:11] I'll be honest.
[00:23:11] I can't see it happening,
[00:23:12] but this is what this point is.
[00:23:14] It's just,
[00:23:15] it's to,
[00:23:15] to see if we can get that,
[00:23:17] um,
[00:23:18] what's it?
[00:23:18] Golden egg of,
[00:23:19] uh,
[00:23:20] of predictions.
[00:23:21] Yeah.
[00:23:21] So it's like the Easter,
[00:23:22] the Easter egg of predictions,
[00:23:23] right?
[00:23:23] It was like,
[00:23:24] exactly.
[00:23:26] Well,
[00:23:26] yeah,
[00:23:27] who knows?
[00:23:27] I mean,
[00:23:28] we,
[00:23:28] we've never knowingly been,
[00:23:29] been,
[00:23:29] been right in the past,
[00:23:30] Ryan.
[00:23:31] So,
[00:23:34] I think on the last episode,
[00:23:36] we decided that over the few years we're doing this,
[00:23:39] we've been like,
[00:23:40] right.
[00:23:40] At least three times.
[00:23:42] Yeah.
[00:23:42] Yeah,
[00:23:42] exactly.
[00:23:43] Yeah.
[00:23:43] Yeah.
[00:23:43] Three times out of three.
[00:23:45] If we,
[00:23:45] if we're really serious about it.
[00:23:46] So there's a hundred percent hit rate.
[00:23:48] We've got it.
[00:23:48] Exactly.
[00:23:48] Yeah.
[00:23:48] We've only ever made three predictions.
[00:23:50] We've got all right.
[00:23:51] That's the only way you're going to prove us wrong is by listening to every episode.
[00:23:55] So it might've been the wrong,
[00:23:56] it might've been the wrong brand and the wrong industry and the wrong technology,
[00:23:59] but we definitely got it right.
[00:24:00] Yeah.
[00:24:01] Yeah,
[00:24:01] exactly.
[00:24:02] Um,
[00:24:02] so hold us to account.
[00:24:04] Um,
[00:24:04] we've made our predictions 2025 and I want you to make a note of these.
[00:24:08] And then by the end of the year,
[00:24:10] tell us how wrong we were.
[00:24:12] And that brings another Digitals and the Cruel World podcast to the close,
[00:24:16] the first of 2025.
[00:24:17] Thank you for listening.
[00:24:18] Um,
[00:24:19] if you were,
[00:24:20] I guess,
[00:24:20] or have been a listener from the start,
[00:24:22] thank you for,
[00:24:22] for staying with us all this time.
[00:24:24] If you listened to our episode through 2024,
[00:24:27] thank you for joining us.
[00:24:28] We moved into the new year.
[00:24:30] And if this is the first episode,
[00:24:32] we do talk about other things apart from predictions.
[00:24:35] We can talk about lots of interesting bits around what apps are released.
[00:24:39] What's been going on the marketplace.
[00:24:40] So make sure you catch out,
[00:24:42] catch other shows.
[00:24:42] And if you do not follow our YouTube channel,
[00:24:45] um,
[00:24:46] search for digital disruptors.
[00:24:48] Follow us.
[00:24:48] You'll catch all the videos as well as the podcast.
[00:24:50] It'll be the digital digest where we dive into specific apps,
[00:24:54] specific functions,
[00:24:55] specific sectors,
[00:24:56] and the things you need to be looking at.
[00:24:58] Please do rate,
[00:24:59] review,
[00:25:00] and follow us on LinkedIn and other socials to make sure you keep up to date with
[00:25:04] everything we discuss.
[00:25:06] We're going to catch you throughout 2025.
[00:25:08] 25.